♾️ Well, That Didn’t Go As Planned… — A New Series with Nic Antoinette

Amelia HrubyHey there, Off the Grid listeners. Amelia here popping in before this episode with a special announcement. Come to class, which is my three day workshop intensive, where I will teach you how to teach and sell online with confidence and care, has been rescheduled for June fourth, fifth, and sixth. You probably heard me talking about it here on the podcast in May, and I had to push the dates because my beloved dog, Zoe, sadly passed away the week that come to class was going to happen, and I just couldn't teach in those immediate moments of grief. So I rescheduled come to class for the beginning of June, and I added even more support if you'd like to join us.

Amelia HrubySo this is just a very quick message to invite you to head to the show notes and check out come to class. You have until the end of May to sign up. It's going to be a great time. And since it had to be rescheduled, you can still join. Again, head to the link in the show notes to sign up.

Amelia HrubyNow, let's get into this episode.

Nic AntoinetteLet's go off the grid. Okay. Let's go off the grid. Okay. I know that you really wanna put your phone away.

Nic AntoinetteYeah. Let's go off the grid.

Amelia HrubyHello, and welcome to Off the Grid, a podcast about being self employed without needing social media. I'm your host, Amelia Fribbie, and today, you, dear listener, have tuned in for a very special episode. This week, we are kicking off a new series that I promised you back in late January, I think, but that for many life reasons that you will soon hear about did not begin in February, did not begin in March, and now is here in April. In this series, I will be talking to my best friend and biz friend, Nick Antoinette, about the things that are coming up in our self employment and creative business journeys as we move through 2026. Each month we'll share a little bit about how things have been going in our business, what's been coming up personally, professionally, politically, and more I'm sure, and in the process hopefully you will feel less alone in your work as well.

Amelia HrubyBefore we dive into today's episode, I wanna make sure you know about two things that I will actually talk about again at the very end. The first is that Off the Grid is hosting a free twenty twenty six astrology and business planning summit. It's happening Friday, April 17 and Friday, April 24, and it features 10 amazing interweb and clubhouse community members who will be teaching workshops on astrology, somatics, embodied practices, and how all of that impacts our creative work and business. And the entire event is free because it's sponsored by nine to kind, which is an anti perfectionist planner brand that I am love, love, loving this year. And they have very kindly provided some discounts for off the grid listeners.

Amelia HrubySo head to the show notes to RSVP to the summit totally for free. And while you're there, you can check out the exclusive discount codes from nine to kind if you're on the lookout for a digital or paper planner. So that's the first thing we have coming up this month. The second thing I would like you to know about is that this spring, I am going to be teaching a class called come to class. It's a little meta, I know, but that's how I like to do things around here.

Amelia HrubyAnd come to class is going to be all about how to teach and sell online with confidence and care. I have been teaching for twenty years, literally since I was teaching tap dancing to toddlers while I was still in high school. And along the way, I have learned so much about how to hold space, how to create transformative containers, and how to transition all of that online when we want to do our work virtually. In this workshop, I'm going to teach you how to teach, but I'm also going to teach you how your teaching skills can translate directly to your sales skills and why becoming a great teacher might just be the greatest hack you've ever found for increasing your sales. It's a hypothesis, but one that I've seen work in my own business and with many of my peers.

Amelia HrubySo I can't wait to teach this class. It's gonna be happening in May. It's gonna be a two day weekend intensive with a week of coworking and office hours sessions following so we can really learn and then implement, get your questions answered. And if that sounds like something that you might need or want, you can head to the show notes to put yourself on the wait list today. I'm so grateful that you're here, and I can't wait for you to hear this episode.

Amelia HrubyNick and I are going to talk about so many things that have been coming up in our personal lives and the political realities of the world. I wanna give you a heads up that we are going to talk about the death of parents and grandparents in this episode. Nick and I are both going through some recent grief portals, and we wanted to share openly. But if that's not for you today, I would skip this one for now because it's gonna come up quite often. Thank you so much for tuning in.

Amelia HrubyAnd if you enjoy this conversation, make sure you get yourself on Nick's email list where so much amazing writing is happening on these themes. But for now, let's go ahead and dive in to the first conversation in my new monthly series with Nick Antoinette. Hi, Nick. Welcome back to the show. You're here.

Nic AntoinetteThank you so much. I'm here. I know. I was supposed to be here at the end of last month, and I wasn't because life. And now I'm here, and I'm very grateful to be here.

Amelia HrubyMe too. So let's open with an impossible question. How are you today?

Nic AntoinetteWell, I mentioned not being here last month as planned, and that's because, as you know, my mom died. So how am I today? I actually had a pretty rough grief night last night. So today's orientation is trying to prioritize small, tangible pleasures. So right now, I am drinking hot water mixed with homemade elderberry and hawthorn berry syrup in a mug that my partner made.

Nic AntoinetteI've got beeswax candles burning on my altar. I'm feeling very endorphiny from an uphill treadmill workout that I did just before this. I was like, if I don't do some exercise, my brain is not gonna be able to speak to my beloved Emilia. So I'm feeling grateful to know myself well enough that I know the things to do when I'm not that it fixes everything. Right?

Nic AntoinetteLike, doing an uphill treadmill workout doesn't fix the fact that my mom's dead, but, you know, knowing what the tools in the toolbox are are really useful. So that's how I'm feeling today. I'm also I've been thinking about the chaotic weather of early spring. You know, rain, sun, warm, cold, wind, no wind. And what would happen if I let myself be a little bit more chaotic as well?

Nic AntoinetteWhat does it mean to embody the energy of the season? Like, try stuff, see what happens. Not everything has to be fully planned out as someone who likes to make a spreadsheet about everything. So trying to embrace the chaos of the season.

Amelia HrubyYeah. Oh, what beautiful answers. I feel like spring weather here in Nebraska has been more chaotic than ever. We literally had a forty eight hour period where it went from 93 to 33, and I was like, I'm sorry. Excuse me?

Amelia HrubyAnd my brain was like, I'm sorry. Sinus pressure headache? And it was so miserable. I hated it. So I like this sort of reclamation of chaos.

Amelia HrubyHow can I mirror the chaotic weather perhaps? Or just allow, like, for the fact that maybe my inner weather will also be a little chaotic because the outer weather is chaotic right now. And, yeah, I mean, I'm so with you, and I've obviously been talking to you a lot since your mom passed, but it's just these grief portals. It's like waves and waves, and there's a lot to move through together there. So, yeah, I know we're gonna talk about some of that today, so I won't start in that place.

Amelia HrubyBut I feel like my overall sentiment for 2026 is just, like, the melting face emoji. That's how I feel 100% of the time. Just like, I don't know.

Nic AntoinetteOh my gosh. Well, okay. So how are you today?

Amelia HrubyToday, I am on my second cup of coffee, so I'm feeling good. I'll probably start talking fast. And this morning before we recorded, I recorded with the head of security at Proton. Her name's Patricia, and it was so fun. I felt so nervous.

Amelia HrubySo I too, like, I woke up early. I did a little bike in the basement. We have a, like, knock off Peloton down there. I did my bike to get my brain going. I took a nice hot shower.

Amelia HrubyI, like, put on my lipstick, and I did that interview, and I felt really good and excited about it. So I'm kinda landing here pretty uplifted, pretty caffeinated, and just, like, really happy to be with you and be back on the podcast together.

Nic AntoinetteI know. I'm happy to. Okay. So I have to say, I know that we are nearing the end or just by the time this goes out, having wrapped up your AI series, which I'm obsessed with, I feel like all I've been doing is sending you voice notes about thoughts about AI. So thank you for this crucial work you're doing for the people.

Nic AntoinetteHow are you feeling as the series wraps up? What was it like for you? Are there any big takeaways you wanna share? What's coming up for you?

Amelia HrubyYeah. Thanks for asking. It has been, I think it's kind of a watershed moment. I feel like this series has taken me, like, to the edge of my thought leadership in these areas. It really has me talking about tech in a much more specific way where I, you know, I often talk about marketing or creativity, but in the AI series, we're really talking about technology.

Amelia HrubyAnd we're talking about a technology that a lot of people have a lot of big and unresolved feelings about. And I've definitely been getting some of those feelings in my inbox, some of which I welcomed. I did tell people they could email me, and and to the people they did email me, thank you listeners, I like to hear from you. And also, you helped me figure out, like, okay, how do we make another space where that conversation can happen? That isn't just like everyone tell Amelia your feelings.

Amelia HrubyHow do we do this together? And that's been a really nice shift to make and to continue to think about like, you know, podcasts are broadcast channels, like me and my guests talking to the people. And it feels like a conversation because often I'm having a conversation on the show, but, like, how do I actually bring listeners into the conversation? So that's something else I've sort of been taking away that's less about the topic of the series, but more just about kind of what's arising around it. So, yeah, I've just really been kind of trying to stay with myself through that process, through getting a lot more feedback than I normally do, sort of hearing from more people, and also just reckoning with, like, the actual impact of my work, which when you're, like, an aspiring podcaster or you're, like, starting out as a business owner, you're, like, trying so hard to, like, get people to notice you, get people to buy from you, get people to listen to you.

Amelia HrubyBut if all of that works at a certain point, you arrive at this place where you're like, holy shit, people are listening to me. And every time that happens to me, I'm like, okay, I have to, like, own this. Like, I I have to, like, level up my energetic sovereignty and also reshape the relationship to my, like, responsibility and accountability. Like, how do I shepherd and steward this influence with so much care rather than, like, back away from it? So in the case of the AI series, I'm really trying to help us ask big and important questions about AI and the role that it plays in our creative work and lives.

Amelia HrubyAnd I definitely think thanks to my like interlocutors, some of whom have been on the podcast and some of whom are very behind the scenes in my messages, like you are. I think it's working. I think we're all kind of up leveling how we're thinking about AI together.

Nic AntoinetteI mean, I think so too. I feel like I just keep texting you being like, you're doing God's work here. Like this, you're so good at holding the nuance and especially for someone like me that is so extremely anti generative AI, as, as you know, from our many conversations, It has actually been really nice to just watch the care and tenderness that you are holding the space for all of these different opinions, and it is really nuanced. And I feel a lot of parallels between you doing this series and the writing that I've been doing about collapse, right, and systems breakdown, societal collapse. Right?

Nic AntoinetteThey are really confronting topics, and people understandably have really big feelings. And I like the phrase energetic sovereignty, the place that you have to be in to put something out publicly that you know people that are gonna be people who disagree with. Like, there are people who I am watching them unsubscribe because this content isn't for them or these topics aren't for them. And I celebrate that. And I think this has always been true, but I think we're living in in times, particularly right now, where you have to stand for something and that it is scary sometimes to have a big opinion publicly, especially one that is controversial.

Nic AntoinetteAnd also that to me is what integrity means. Being willing to be like, I believe this, which doesn't mean I'm not open to hearing other people's things or changing my mind. I'm a big fan of changing my mind, but more spaces where there can be conversations about things that are hard, scary, complex, confusing, that we might have guilt, shame, fear around. Just more of that is what I want. Mhmm.

Amelia HrubyYeah. And you and I have been talking a lot about the nuance of, like, how to hold that space when you also have, like, a pretty strong conviction about what is right or wrong in that arena. And I think that is, like, a skill that takes time and practice to hone, you know, like, we've talked a lot and I've shared some on the podcast too about, like, there is a space between, like, what I will or won't do with AI, how I talk about that on the podcast, what I do or don't allow in the interweb. Like there's nuance at all of those levels of this.

Nic AntoinetteYeah, absolutely. I mean, and I think this question as creative people, as small business people, I mean, obviously, we're talking about this through a business context that the both and of your work doesn't have to be and shouldn't be for everyone. Mhmm. And how do we have gentleness and care and let our spaces if this is what we're trying to achieve, let our spaces be a welcoming portal for people to engage with these topics that maybe are really important to us, that we're farther along in researching, investigating, forming an opinion on, you know? And so I think there's that there is that tension, that dance between I do stand for something.

Nic AntoinetteThe unsubscribe button is at the bottom. Godspeed to you on your way out, you know, wishing everybody well in, in their own journey and also not coming at things so hot that people can't find their own way within the content.

Amelia HrubyYeah. I was reflecting to you earlier this week that like, I, you know, didn't want to accidentally become Ed Zittron and you were kindly like, that is not humanly possible for you to do that. I was

Nic Antoinettelike, respectfully, you're, respectfully, you're, you couldn't, you could spend the rest of your life trying and you would not be able to do that. And that is a compliment, even as I do like some of Ed's work.

Amelia HrubyOf course. And so I'm just always reminded too, that like, it's a spectrum and a journey and, like, we need people at different points. And so often, like, really even thinking back to the work I was doing, like, more directly in, like, feminist values and praxis, like, there are theories of, like, bridge people, and how do we understand and help people move between worlds, between ways of thinking, between, like, go on this journey together. And within that, there's also a whole body of work called, like, the bridge called my back, which is that, like, often when people become bridge people, especially in feminist theory is I'm, like, women of color, and they're trying to center these experiences of, like, we can't just walk over and on top of the people that bridge the worlds for us, but we still need that role. So like, how do we do that?

Amelia HrubyAnd that that's like what we're, we're playing with. We're getting into here.

Nic AntoinetteYeah. The last thing I'll say about this, perhaps before we move on is I think that something that I have seen in my many, many years of self employment or working with other self employed people, talking to other self employed people, especially folks who are newer to it is a fear of this genre or arena that I wanna create work in is so saturated. Why is my voice needed? And an antidote to that for me is really understanding that a different perspective or a different energetic output is gonna be a different a better match for different people. I know we're sort of jokingly using Ed Zitron as an example, but he has this intense, no room for argument, like, coming at you really hot, you know, opinions that that will be the approach for certain people to engage with anti AI content.

Nic AntoinetteAnd that's great that that exists. Similarly, I remember sometime last year when you sent me that essay by an author who was basically, like, my books were, you know, used against my consent for training, you know, whatever the AI was. And I consider anyone who uses this to be stealing from me. Like, that is a firm opinion that's gonna turn some people off, but it's also gonna be the opinion that makes some people be like, yes. And so to anyone who's feeling like, what is the point of me putting my work into this saturated market or Internet that's already really noisy is your unique combination of viewpoint and circumstances and lived experience and energetic, you know, how you touch it.

Nic AntoinetteThat's gonna be right for someone that couldn't necessarily find an entrance point through something else.

Amelia HrubyYeah. I completely agree. I think that there's space for so many different points of view. And, honestly, I wish people were more concerned with just, like, how to develop their own point of view. What I see way more of is actually, like, watered down sort of parroting of other people where you're, like, literally I'm, like, I feel like I said heard somebody else say that, and now it's coming out of your mouth.

Amelia HrubyThat's the thing I don't want people to do. Like, if you actually have a clear point of view and perspective, share it. There is space for that. Please bring it to us. And also the only way to figure that out is to try.

Amelia HrubyI would 100%, when I was just starting out writing online, making content, being on Instagram, I look back at that stuff and I'm like, oh, I was just a little bit copying that other person because I didn't know how to be myself online yet. And again, it's like a developmental process. Like just the way that, like, babies and children, like, mimic other people to learn how to speak, to learn how to do things. We have to do that when we're, like, developing our point of view as well and when we're, like, building an online persona, maybe. But so, yeah, I just think it's there's a lot of space for all of us.

Amelia HrubyAnd anyone who listened to the off the grid AI series and was like, I have a lot to say, or I have a different opinion than Amelia. Make a podcast, write an article, put it out there because honestly, a lot of people have reached out to me over the past few weeks and been like, you're the only person I hear talking about this. And that's a kind compliment, but I actually don't desire to be that only person. I want there to be a lot of conversation with all of the nuances of this. And I don't just want it to be the boomers and the doomers anymore as we, like, have these polarized camps.

Amelia HrubyLike, there's so many of us bridging or navigating between or around that space. And, like, if you have those thoughts, write them, send them to me. I wanna read them. I wanna share them. We need it.

Amelia HrubyYes. Amen. Okay. So approximately two million years ago, you were on the podcast to talk about business de growth.

Nic AntoinetteRight. Right. Two months, comma, ten thousand years. Yes.

Amelia HrubySo that is how it feels, both like personal, emotional landscapes and just with like the so many awful things that have happened in the world since. But I wanted to sort of revisit that conversation today and just ask you, like, what has come up about business degrowth for you since that episode went live, if anything?

Nic AntoinetteYeah, it's an interesting question. I feel like I tried to describe in that episode that for me, it's less about degrowth this year than it is about rightsizing. And I think of rightsizing as the fact that for all aspects of our lives and businesses, there's a size, a shape, a scope that feels best at different times. And for me being in an ongoing and honest, really honest conversation about the specifics of that with myself and of what is Right Size at any given time, that really helps me. So with that framing in mind, one thing I'll share that I noticed after our conversation, which obviously was an invitation for me to reflect more on this topic, is that the current iteration of my business, wherein, you know, my only offering is my pay what you can newsletter of personal essay style writing, it's exactly the right size for me right now.

Nic AntoinetteThe time and energy that it takes to write and be present in the comments each week is well matched for my current schedule and capacity. The money I'm earning from it feels like a fair exchange. While I absolutely welcome new readers who find the space organically and wanna join me there, I'm not actively promoting or marketing it or trying to put myself in front of new audiences really in this season of my life. And that feels right size too. And so, yeah, I think what's come up for me is one realizing that that's true and that feels really good.

Nic AntoinetteAnd while also holding the fact that if any of the things that I just said, you know, if that if anything changes, I can also make changes. And that right size for a certain season of life doesn't mean right size forever, and that that's really fine, but it feels gratifying to me to realize that my business feels right size right now, because as you know, I was very intentional about making my business smaller over the past year plus, and that certainly had its own, you know, fears and challenges and grief and losses of making some of the changes that I made and getting rid of some of the aspects of my business that I got rid of. So I I'm having a moment of, like, and I did what I wanted to do, and that feels really nice.

Amelia HrubyMhmm. Yeah. I really love the different ways you pointed to, like, sort of how you measure right sized ness. I think it's so hard to often identify, like, what is enough or what is the right size. But you mentioned, like, how much time you're spending on the creative process, how much time you're spending on, you know, the interactive, I guess, we could call it customer service process.

Amelia HrubyThat's not how I describe replying in your comments, but, like, interacting with the people. There's, like, your creative time. There's the interacting with the people time. I know there's a little bit of admin time as well. And that's one way that we, like, measure rightsizeness is, like, the time that it takes.

Amelia HrubyAnd then another is, like, how much money it's making. Is it bringing in the right size of revenue that you've wanted? Are there any way other ways that you sort of check-in with right sizedness?

Nic AntoinetteI mean, I I feel like another one that's much less tangible and is more of a felt experience has to do with what we talked about in the last episode of my experience of parasocial energetic burnout is just the relational energetics of how many people are reading and that I am engaging with that the numbers right now feel it it's just like a felt sense of this doesn't feel overexposed to me. And it also doesn't feel like, oh, man. This isn't enough people to make all of this effort feel worth it, however we define that for ourselves. And this is this specific aspect of that may be more intangible, how many people in this space is something that I thought about before every single workshop or class or group that I hosted on Zoom that I always capped my registration. I know, you know, plenty of friends and and peers who let as many people who wanna register register, and that's great.

Nic AntoinetteAnd that never works for me. I really have had a sense with each workshop of, okay, 50 people feels correct. And if, you know, 50 people register, probably about 30 will come live. How does that feel to me? You know, because how many people you have in a space is gonna determine the feeling of the space.

Nic AntoinetteCan people unmute and share out loud? You know, if there's 200 people, that's probably not gonna feel correct. And so some of it is more of just the energetics of how does this feel to me? Does it feel right sized? Because I think sometimes in the past, something wouldn't be right sized.

Nic AntoinetteIt was almost just like this, I feel like I'm wearing a shirt that's too tight. Like, it it feels not good, but I didn't know why. And it was, you know, parsing out, like you said, all of these different aspects of what makes something right sized, I think has been really helpful for me. It's not something that I necessarily go through a checklist now of this, this, because I've been thinking about this idea of enoughness in every area of my life for so long that it's more of a intuitive process. But, yeah, I'd say that's the other thing that comes up.

Amelia HrubyYeah. Yeah. I always love your attentiveness to like, how many people in the room and also, like, what is the container of the room. Right? Because how many people in the, like, email newsletter comments, that's a very different room than a literal Zoom room.

Amelia HrubyAnd I think that, yeah, right sizing for that sense of exposure that you're talking about, that takes a lot of, like, nuance and checking in with yourself, and it's a little different in every space. And I also know that, like, leaving social media and making your newsletter primarily private is a way that has really helped you right size in those realms. You know, you're less just, like, on the Internet available to everyone than you were a few years ago.

Nic AntoinetteYeah. I mean, and and I guess one other thing that came up, and then I'm curious what's come up for you with this idea of business degrowth, you know, since our episode went live. Something else that I realized right after our conversation was one of the hard boundaries that I shared when we were talking last time is that I hadn't put any photos of myself or my life or any personal photos on the Internet, basically, since I left Instagram in June 2023. And that felt totally correct to me. And it was really what I needed.

Nic AntoinetteAnd what I realized was in making those changes and cutting back in a bunch of ways after that initial Healing period, maybe sounds too woo woo, but that is how it felt for me that, okay, I'm in a different place now. And sometimes the boundaries that you need at a certain time are not the boundaries that you currently need. And so that also needs to, for me, be an ongoing conversation. And I realized, oh, behind the paywall, it actually would feel cute to me to sometimes share some photos. And so I shared some dog photos.

Nic AntoinetteRight? And so that was almost like a stepping stone. It's not pictures of me. It's okay, cute dogs. And there were many people in the comments who were like, oh my gosh.

Nic AntoinetteThis was such a delightful surprise to see more of, like, a visual aspect of your life. And so I think I'll probably do that, not all of the time, but more in the coming months because it was it was nice to realize, oh, I did all of this business degrowth. And it's not just degrowth for the sake of degrowth. It's hopefully to get to a different emotional and energetic capacity space so that you can act from there. So that was another thing to be like, oh, actually this really hard line that was supportive for me for almost three years, isn't something that I need anymore and allowing myself to then make that pivot.

Amelia HrubyYeah. I loved your dog photos. I also feel like I occasionally share Zoe photos. And when I do, I'm like, you all better appreciate this. My dog is so cute.

Amelia HrubyIf you get to see her.

Nic AntoinetteOh my gosh. That reminds me my friend, Luca Davis in their newsletter, I think yesterday, a couple days ago, were talking about how they used to share photos, more photos of their dogs on Instagram. And they were always dissatisfied that people weren't, like, enthusiastic enough about it. And now they were like, alright, fine. I guess I'm just going to enjoy these dogs personally, because there's no amount of validation that other people could give that would equal the amount that they love their dogs.

Nic AntoinetteAnd I'm like, that is a 100% relatable.

Amelia HrubyThat's absolutely how I feel. I'm sure this is like how people feel when they send you pictures of their baby and you're like cute. And they're, like, isn't this the cutest baby you've ever seen in the whole wide world? And I'm, like, yeah. You know, we we all have our attachments to our beloveds, and sometimes we just need to be happy with our attachment and appreciation of them.

Amelia HrubyWe don't, like, need everyone else to agree with us. But, you know, for me, as an Aries sun and Aries season, I want everyone to be as excited about Zoe as I am.

Nic AntoinetteI mean, as someone who has never met Zoe and is her number one biggest fan of how in every photo her little tongue is sticking out, if people do not appreciate that that is what we need, the vibes that we need are Zoey asleep with her tongue out, like, come on.

Amelia HrubyShe is a rest icon. I do love it. And for listeners tuned in, I sent a Zoey photo out in the clubhouse on Monday with my episode with JJ. So if you're listening to this and you're like, Amelia, where can I see Zoey? You can see her in the clubhouse.

Amelia HrubyShe's very cute.

Nic AntoinetteRight. You're like, pay me, join the clubhouse, and you get to see my dog. Listen, that's correct. Dogs behind the paywall. Oh my God.

Nic AntoinetteRight. OnlyFans, but make it Zoe's tongue. What has come up about business degrowth for you in these last couple months?

Amelia HrubyYou know, we recorded that episode on degrowth, and I was like, yeah. I'm degrowing my business. And then I just think I went into a period of extreme growth, essentially.

Nic AntoinetteI was like, I remember being like, respectfully, this is more than I've seen you work in a really long time. How does that feel?

Amelia HrubyYeah. It's been interesting. So I just recorded with my friend Kate of Honing In podcast, and she did a whole interview about my sabbatical, which I think is going live next week. So folks, there's a whole thing about that in there, and I'd love to point people there. I'll add it to the show notes when it's up because it's been so interesting to realize that, like, I did shrink softer sounds significantly.

Amelia HrubyI like, as I've said, let go of two thirds or three fourths of the clients. I pulled back so much, but I underestimated how much work would kinda bleed over into the start of this year. And I just feel like in January and at least through halfway through February, I was just still doing a lot of editing in addition to all of this other off the grid stuff I wanted to do. I was also still just catching up on calls that I had pushed from the fall into the new year because my book launch was so busy last fall. And so by about mid February, I felt like I could finally breathe, and I was like, okay.

Amelia HrubyNow I am no longer editing for everyone. I am no longer on everybody's coffee chat, and this is more the relationship that I want to have to work. I am working less, fewer hours than I was before. But I also think it's been interesting to see as I've made more space for off the grid, there's just a lot more chatter around it. Some of that is coming my way, and so I'm having to be like, okay.

Amelia HrubyLike, how do I wanna engage with the emails? How do I wanna, like, you know, steward? There are more people in the interweb than ever. I don't actually think there are more off the grid listeners than ever, but I really like, more of them are talking to me than used to. And so I've been trying I don't think I have found the right sizeness with it yet, and I'm definitely still in the space of trying to figure that out.

Amelia HrubyProbably why I asked you about the, like, ways you figure it out because I'm trying to think through that. And at the same time, it does feel exciting and good. Like, I like stewarding off the grid through this growth period. And I'm glad that softer sounds shrunk, and I'm continuing to shrink it. I'm, like, making plans to try to off board more clients and really let go of my editing practice because I feel like the way that off the grid has blossomed since I gave it more space makes me feel safe in committing to it fully.

Amelia HrubyYou know, a lot of the reason I didn't just dump softer sounds last year was because I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure if I could really make money in this way. And, you know, I don't have a huge risk tolerance with my income. I personally like my earnings to feel pretty stable or at least my take home pay to be very stable. And so I think that my way of kind of always having two businesses going is a way I've protected that for myself, And also it feels like a pattern I'm getting ready to let go of.

Amelia HrubyLike, I'm tired of always doing so many things at once just to, like, feel safe and be sure I have enough money coming in. So, yeah, that's kind of how I'm thinking about degrowth. It's like, I'm really continuing to try to hone that right sized ness, hone that enough ness, and, like, deconstruct some of my behaviors that I think keep me safe, but I'm not sure actually working for me anymore. Like, I just think they keep me safe. I don't actually need them to be or feel that way.

Nic AntoinetteI love hearing you reflect on this in real time. Like you said, when softer sounds is shrinking and off the grid is growing and what you described of more chatter, more conversation, more people in the inbox, more that's I mean, I vividly remember when that was happening for me however many years ago, and I don't know if this will be relatable to you, but something that I experienced, first, I felt excited, and then I felt kind of stressed and overwhelmed. And then when I realized that I was gonna have to put some more boundaries practices in place to face okay. Basically, you can't respond to every email after a certain point that the one to many, you know, someone listening to a podcast in their ears, it feels really intimate. And it's so beautiful that they want to reach out to you and talk about something.

Nic AntoinetteBut if you responded to every single one of those, you know, points of connection, you wouldn't then be able to make the podcast. That is what made them reach out to begin with. And I wound up experiencing some sadness and grief over that of, oh, I don't want any and that fear of people being disappointed. You know? And there definitely was a period of having to very publicly set expectations, right, of, you know, on a contact page, on whatever, whether it was an autoresponder email being really gentle, but sort of reminding people that there are thousands of them and one of me, and then looking for similarly to what you did with the AI series of opening up space in the clubhouse for people to come and engage there so that if people are reaching out to you and wanna talk about it, you can say, great.

Nic AntoinetteLove that you have feelings. Here's where we're doing that. Right? That you don't need to be in one on one dialogue, but kind of then being in the more hostess facilitator mode of what can I put in place? What spaces do I need to open up?

Nic AntoinetteAnd, yeah, it may it makes me think about because I've moved so much in my life that when I would go back to visit a place that I used to live, I wouldn't have time or energetic capacity to see every single one of my friends one on one necessarily. And so to say, hey, I'm gonna be at this park from noon to three on Saturday. If you're free, I would love for you to come by. And that means some people don't get seen, but having to be a little bit more proactive about creating spaces so people don't feel totally shut down. Like, oh, Amelia's never emails me back.

Nic AntoinetteYou know? But and that itself is a growth edge because you're changing the role that you have. It's not necessarily, Amelia, you're friendly, always accessible person in the inbox, which I'm not saying that's who you've been. But, yeah, there's something in that for me that feels tender and, you know, it's it's useful, I think, to hear you grapple with this out loud.

Amelia HrubyYeah. I appreciate all of that. And it is also, like, scary to grapple with out loud. Right? Like, I I don't know that I've been, like, friendly Amelia, always accessible in the inbox, but I definitely am, like, a friendly welcoming persona.

Amelia HrubyAnd I I really want to be on the podcast, and that's who I am in real life. It's not just like a persona. And it can feel scary then to be like, I I think there are a lot of pathways in my brain that are like availability is relatability is success. And I have to break that down. Like, otherwise, I will burn out.

Amelia HrubyOtherwise, I will go through parasocial burnout. I will completely, like, dissolve into a puddle and have to leave the Internet for a while. Like, that's so real. I I really appreciated how you sort of shared your experience of that because now it's on my horizon as, like, a a possible endpoint. And, like, I have you and your work to sort of help me think through, like, if I don't want to totally burn out in this way, what do I need to put in place?

Amelia HrubyAnd also, not that it's bad to burn out in that way either. Maybe it'll happen no matter what I put in place. I surrender to that if need be, but, also, I think I can be a lot more thoughtful. So, yeah, I also like that you used the word proactive in there because I think that, like, you know, I kind of created this clubhouse thread a bit reactively, and I think in the future, I can start to think about that. But, also, I am just on the edge of this.

Amelia HrubyLike, it used to be that when I would ask people to meet me in the comments, nobody would show up. You know? So, like, there's a lot of space in between even where I am now and, like, knee like, I'm just on the precipice of needing the guardrails, I think. And I may not even stay here. Like, the AI series is very sort of bringing up a lot for people.

Amelia HrubyI think some things I'll do will ease back into the, like, I get one email every three weeks from a listener. Like but but over time, I want I do want to grow and be in that place where I the guardrails are important. And so, yeah, really thinking about how do I remain welcoming yet not available all the time is a question I'm sitting with.

Nic AntoinetteA 100%. I mean, I just wanna underscore what you said about that belief, which I think is both true and not true of availability equals relatability equals success. Right? And to also look at things I've had to really I mean, the most clear example for me was when I was still on Instagram and when I was really active on that feeling like I had to answer all of my DMs. And there was definitely a ego aspect to it and the lack of humility.

Nic AntoinetteWell, I can do this. Of course I can do this. And the truth is that I couldn't and also be well. And so I was had to really look at what are the expectations that I'm putting on myself? Where are these expectations gendered of people feel more entitled to the time and expertise and emotional tending of certain people than other.

Nic AntoinetteRight? So there was a lot of that in there too. So, yes, you're doing hard, beautiful work.

Amelia HrubyIt is hard and it's fun. And also like, I will just continue to say thank you to everyone listening. Like I wouldn't be in this position if it weren't for all of you tuned in. And this is not me being like, please leave.

Nic AntoinetteOne of the things, the difference is that because you, your work is geared toward other self employed creative people, business owners, you have almost like a cool opportunity to go through this yourself. And in it's generous to talk about it out loud because I guarantee you, there are people listening who are going through whatever their own version of this is. And there is something to be said for, like, there's no easy answers. Y'all like let's figure this out together. You're not saying, fuck you.

Nic AntoinetteDon't email me. You know, like that's not, and also there's someone else listening. Who's like, I too cannot keep on top of all of my emails and I don't want to let people down. And what do

Amelia HrubyI do about that? Absolutely. And we all just have, like, different capacity for this. Right? Like, I'm an extrovert who does love emails.

Amelia HrubySo I my threshold where I've gotten to this is maybe a lot more people. Some of you tuned in maybe, like, I got 200 people on my newsletter list and it completely destroyed me. Like, it's not about the specific number. It's about our ability. I also love what you said earlier, Nick, about, like, the ego of thinking you could reply to all your DMs.

Amelia HrubyI 100% have that with my emails. I am still literally, like, prostrating myself at the feet of inbox zero, and I'm like, why, Amelia? Why? Okay. But the the hilarious thing that has happened to me that is, like, literally a sign from the email glitch gods is that there is an email that is haunting my inbox that will not be marked read.

Amelia HrubyI do not know what is broken. No matter how many times I read it and put it in its folder, it pops back into my inbox. It stays unread. I feel haunted by this email. And what I think it is is it's my inbox being like, fuck you and your inbox zero priorities.

Amelia HrubyYou cannot read all the emails. You cannot finish this. Abandon the attempt, Amelia.

Nic AntoinetteOh my gosh. The tech overlords are dragging you personally and they take the lessons from wherever they come. Honestly. Surrender, Amelia, surrender. It makes me want to be like, well, what's the email about, but that seems not relevant.

Amelia HrubyIt's The thread is actually like a really annoying thread I don't want to look at anymore. And so it's even worse or better.

Nic AntoinetteIncredible.

Amelia HrubyOkay. As we talk about rightsizing the ghosts that haunt our email inboxes, etcetera, I know that's something you and I both share is like, we just talk about money, finances, business income, etcetera, super transparently. So I wanted to make space here to ask as well, like, kind of bridging out of our business degrowth conversation. What's been coming up for you and your financial life so far this year since we last spoke?

Nic AntoinetteWoof. How much time do you have?

Amelia HrubyNo. Okay.

Nic AntoinetteSo let me let me try to be concise here. I will share some of a couple of things that have been coming up in my personal life, and then a couple of things that are coming up at work as it relates to money. So definitely the biggest, I mentioned that my mom died, And so I've received some inheritance. And as anyone who knows me or has sort of been along the ride of me sharing about my, you know, some of my family stuff over the last however many years, my parents did not have a lot of money. And something that I was always, I would say, at least low key, sometimes high key stressed about, was how I was going to help pay for their care after a certain age.

Nic AntoinetteBecause it was a very finite, this is how much money there is. And at the end of this, it is gone. And what am I gonna do to figure that out? And so I've been processing the fact that I never expected there to be any inheritance because none of us expected that my mom would die this soon. And so it's like the feelings of relief of being free from worrying about how I will pay for her care.

Nic AntoinetteI mean, and my mom died on the six month anniversary of my dad's death. So both of my parents died in a really short time frame, whereas I expected this money to run out, you know? And so feeling, I guess, relieved that I'm not worried about that anymore, but also feeling really sad that the only reason this money is sitting in my bank account is because she's got right? There's there's a lot there that I'm still personally working through. So I'd say that has come up for sure in my personal life.

Nic AntoinetteAnd then so, I mean, some of the things one of the things that I've been using some of that money for, and I wrote about this a lot in my newsletter relatively recently, is stocking up on some things to hopefully hedge against potential supply chain disruptions and price increases as, you know, related to the war in Iran. And who knows what will have happened on that front between the day we're recording and the day this comes out, but something that I have been writing about is looking at that current event through a collapse awareness lens. And so I've I've been spending more money that I am usually comfortable spending because of this, And also I have more money than I usually have because of the inheritance. So it all just feels sticky, I will say. And then at work, which as I have said is is just the newsletter, but I have definitely had multiple situations where readers have canceled their paid subscriptions due to financial hardship, which of course makes sense.

Nic AntoinetteThat is what is happening, right, to a lot of people. And I think because I have talked openly about money for so long that perhaps they feel more comfortable being honest about where they're at and the reasons. And, you know, it it's a it is a pay what you can newsletter subscription. It goes down to, I think, the lowest is a dollar a month. And the question of, you you know, we we were talking about the word proactive before.

Nic AntoinetteIs there anything that I want to try to proactively do to increase the readership in the coming months to to maybe replace some of the churn that's happening. And I think some version of that conversation is what every self employed person I know is thinking about right now. And so there's that as a question for me, because like I said, my business feels completely right sized in terms of the amount of workload. And if I were to switch into more of that, like promo getting in front of new audiences, like, I don't really have the energy to do that, honestly, especially in my grief place. And so just basically how much income loss am I comfortable with?

Nic AntoinetteHow is that related to the inheritance? Right? So there there's, like, some questions there. And then the other money related work thing is I'm really interested in continuing to reimagine and experiment with what a newsletter space can be. And so one of the things that I am doing with my mom's money in light of this idea of sort of emergency preparedness for, you know, potential supply chain disruptions or other things is I'm giving out $10,250 dollar micro grants for people who want to do some kind of stocking up and truly can't afford it.

Nic AntoinetteAnd the applications are open until April 8, so that's still open by the time that this goes live. So if anyone I'm sure you can drop link in the show notes if people wanna check that out. But it's it's also felt good to be like, okay, how can a newsletter, which is similar to a podcast, predominantly a broadcast platform, it is me talking to the readers, me writing things for the readers. And, of course, they can talk to me and to each other in the comments, but what else can a newsletter space be? Can it be a place of radical generosity in various ways?

Nic AntoinetteAnd I'm really interested in just continuing to expand on on that in those ways. Mhmm.

Amelia HrubyYeah. Yeah. I was saying to you privately and will now say publicly that I really admire and feel inspired by the ways that you redistribute money through your newsletter and with your community. And you've done that for years, or, like, the whole time I've been subscribed to and been friends with you. And I think that for myself, it's something that has honestly really fallen out of my practice, or or I haven't I mean, not fallen out of my practice.

Amelia HrubyIn my personal life, I donate and redistribute money regularly. But when I made the shift from being, like, Amelia on the Internet selling stuff to, like, softer sounds as a business, and I need people to pay me my rates, Like, in that shift, I feel like I had to do something different energetically, and now I want to maybe soften or shift again and really move back into this. Many years ago, I did a podcast fellowship through my old show, 50 Feminist States, where I, like, took some of the crowdfunded money and I paid people to learn how to podcast with me and to make an episode. And it's like, you know, is that what softer sounds is next year? If I'm not editing anymore, it doesn't mean that business is gone or the container's gone, but there are just so many possibilities.

Amelia HrubyAnd I think that I feel really inspired by all the ways that you do this. And I had this funny image come up as you were describing, like, your business income, but then also, like, inheritance money. And I just had this image of you, like, playing limbo and then like the bar is like, how low can it go with your revenue without you like breaking your back to get under it? But also the inheritance then is like these books that people are stacking under the sides of the limbo bar. So like they're raising it up as you keep trying to go under.

Amelia HrubyAnd it's like this game where you're like, what is even happening in a certain way?

Nic AntoinetteWhat is even happening? Well, and it's like, it's because right now I'm fine. I'm safe. I have enough money, but the inheritance is a finite amount of money that after that is gone, if I let the revenue get so low that it can't support me at that you know? So there's, like, some of that of, like, what is okay in the moment wouldn't necessarily be okay in the future.

Nic AntoinetteAnd then what am I willing to do or not do about that? And, you know, I think that that's just also wanna comment on what you said of the you know, this used to be more a part of your public practice than it is now. I also think there's something to be said for we cannot be firing on all cylinders all of the time. It makes sense for certain things to fade into the background or to become more a part of our private lives. And it's yeah.

Nic AntoinetteI think sometimes I can put too much pressure on myself that I have to be, you know, checking these 12 different boxes in public and that's how you burn out.

Amelia HrubyYeah. I also like, now that I've been in my business full time for about five years and like doing all of the selling online for about ten, I I really have a lot of tenderness for myself and for other people in, like, how much energy it takes to really build a business that can support you and to let it take that space and to not like rush or force or like and also that it won't be forever. I think during that period, I sometimes I was hard on myself. I was like, am I just like a gross corporate capitalist trying to make money for myself? And like, that's not a helpful mindset.

Amelia HrubyNow that I've arrived here where I'm like, wow, my business can support me and I don't have to strive and push and try for that to be the case anymore. I have more options. I have more capacity. I have more energy, and this is where I want to hold myself to account to be like, okay. I I see I used to do this.

Amelia HrubyI stopped when I was going through this evolution, but I wanna bring it back. I don't need to just keep grinding, keep striving, keep pushing for more. It goes right back to the, you know, rightsizing and enoughness conversation. And if I'm only hanging out in the realm of business, they're just gonna keep telling me, strive, push, hustle, grow. But I can step back from that.

Amelia HrubyI can make different choices if I am connected to that sense of rightsized and enough.

Nic AntoinetteYeah. I mean, and what you spoke to of the feeling of, oh my gosh, am I just a corporate sellout or whatever? And, like, I know you said that sort of jokingly, that discomfort with selling, with earning, with, you know, that whole side of what it means to be self employed is incredibly common from, you know, you and I have both, a, gone through that ourselves, talked to many, many people about that. And it's like my hot take here, which is probably not so hot or spicy, but is the only people that can be, you know, quote, unquote, evolved enough to transcend the capitalism of it all are the people who are independently wealthy enough that they don't have to then I'm like, okay, we all have to survive under these systems. And so what is survival plus, you know, harm reduction plus, you know, community mutual aid it's there is no perfect anything.

Speaker 2Mhmm.

Nic AntoinetteSo that's my hot take. What's been coming up for you in your financial life in the past month or two?

Amelia HrubyYeah. I mean, so some listeners will know that at the very beginning of this year, my partner, JJ, and I bought the house that we live in, which is was a big financial shift and also is just, like, a hugely abstract shift because my parents had previously owned the house. We bought it from them. We did not move. The locks did not change.

Amelia HrubyLike, nothing shifted except now me and my spouse have our names on the deed. And it's been interesting then to saving for the house was a goal that we've had for the past two or three years. And then I was really pushing hard toward, like, I will say, like, my energy there was, like, driving, striving. I know how much money I need. How can I make that?

Amelia HrubyHow can my business be profitable enough? Also, like, JJ, my spouse, was, like, teaching chess lessons to, like, add to our house fund account. Like, it wasn't like it was all on me, but, like, that was a big effort. And when I reached that goal, that was partially what allowed me to shrink softer sounds, pump the brakes. And then the first, you know, season of this year has been a lot about like, okay, so what now?

Amelia HrubyWhy save money now? How much money do I want to save? And I think that I'm still we're kind of still in that conversation. So, you know, JJ and I have set an amount we want for our emergency fund. We've, like, thought about some home projects we wanna do and how much money we need for that.

Amelia HrubyBut I've also been surprised that, like, we quickly almost reached those goals. And it sort of puts a spotlight for me on, like, all the questions that actually you asked in our last episode. Like, what is the purpose of a job for me, Amelia Frueby, right now? What is the purpose of earning? How much do I actually need to earn?

Amelia HrubyAnd how do I address that question in the present tense and the future tense without falling into some of those thought patterns I mentioned earlier around, like, what I think it requires to be safe, which historically in my family has meant, like, a giant retirement account and a pension and all these things. Like, I look around with my elders, and I look at how they made themselves feel safe. And I think to myself, well, I can't get a pension anymore. Not gonna happen. And, also, I don't have the same goals that they did.

Amelia HrubyThey also don't even feel safe. Like they did all of that to feel safe and they don't even feel safe. They're still stressed about money. And so I just feel like what's coming up for me with finances right now is gratitude that off the grid is earning enough that I'm not stressed about the money coming in, even though I did have some fear about that when I stepped back from editing. And then a lot of questions, like, important and nuanced questions around, like, what is the purpose of the money I make going forward beyond the like sort of subsistence level daily needs and comforts.

Amelia HrubyYeah.

Nic AntoinetteAnd grappling with all of that against the backdrop of, you know, what looks to be a rapidly changing national and global economy, potentially.

Amelia HrubyYeah. Of course. I mean, I don't even know how to express my anger, frustration, hatred of our political leaders right now, and going to war in Iran and supporting Israel there and then causing this global economic crisis that is happening around oil. And then to have my own feelings around, like, okay, I've seen gas prices go up for, you know, at least a dollar a gallon everywhere that I live or everywhere that I get gas. But then to be looking at, like, The Philippines declaring a state of emergency because they don't have enough gas.

Amelia HrubyRight? And I'm still going on a road trip this weekend, even though it costs me a little more. And, like, that's all in the background of these questions, of course, like you said.

Nic AntoinetteA 100%. Yep.

Amelia HrubyHello, dear listener, Amelia here popping in to interrupt my conversation with Nick, because if you are still tuned in, I want to invite you to subscribe to Nick's newsletter, which is called Now What? And in which Nick explores all of the themes that we've brought up in this episode in more depth with beautiful nuance and gorgeous prose, and I really think that you would enjoy it. You can subscribe for free and you'll get an email or two a month, or I do highly recommend upgrading to paid. Nick has a pay what you can paid subscriber system. When you upgrade to paid, you get an amazing email from Nick each week.

Amelia HrubyTheir newsletter is truly one of my favorite things that lands in my inbox. I go dig it out of my newsletter folder every Tuesday afternoon, and I savor it, and I'm grateful for it. So you can go to buttondown.com/nickantoinette to sign up today or head to the link in the show notes to put yourself on the list. These conversations only keep happening if folks are listening to Off the Grid and subscribing to Nick's newsletters, so please do both. Thank you for being here.

Amelia HrubyAnd now let's get back into the conversation. Okay. So you've already shared that your mom has passed away this spring, and I have not talked publicly on the podcast, but plenty of folks inside the interweb know that my grandmother passed away very recently as we're recording this, just a week ago. And I wanted to talk about how we decide what to share when we're going through something in our family, when things are happening behind the scenes. So maybe I'll just start by asking you, like, how did you decide when and how to share the news that your mom had passed, and what felt important to you to be public about, and what, if anything, felt important to remain private about?

Nic AntoinetteI wanna start by saying that there is no right answer to this question. I think it's gonna be very, very different for different people, different businesses, different business topics, business sizes, you know, family privacy. Right? So all of the questions, I think, that someone answers about what it is to be a creator in public or have a business are for oneself to figure out. And I think this one, almost most specifically, that there is no right answer to that.

Nic AntoinetteI think for me, the flexibility of personal essay writing and story sharing, like, yes, my newsletter is predominantly about the question of who and how we wanna be in a collapsing world, but it's very much written from the lens of my own life and experience. So it doesn't feel at all out of place to write about my parents' deaths, for example, which wouldn't necessarily be true in many other types of small businesses or self employment paths. And I had you know, last year, my newsletter used to be on Substack, and I paused it for three months, you know, after you know, basically, when my dad was diagnosed with cancer and then while he was sick and I was flying down there all the time to take care of them. And when he died, you know, I I basically put everything on hold. I paused payments, all of that.

Nic AntoinetteAnd during that time frame is when I moved from Substack to button down. And so one of the, I think one of the first pieces that I wrote on button down was about my dad dying. This is already a topic that I have talked about and, you know, that my mom is unwell and all of this. So none of it was like, hey, hard left turn. Now let's talk about death.

Nic AntoinetteRight? So I think for me, maybe I can share some questions that help me decide what share and when and in how much detail in case that's helpful for anyone else. For me, I'd say the first is, is this thing that's happening in my personal life going to impact the work in some way? For example, me needing time off. Right?

Nic AntoinetteSo my mom had been on hospice care for many months, and so she was in sort of a slow dying process. And then it became very clear, you know, she died on a Saturday night, but it became very clear the the day before Friday morning that she had made a huge decline and was it's basically was like actively dying at that point. And that was when the hospice nurse said it's only gonna be a couple of days. And so I wrote a short newsletter basically from her bedside that felt for me, writing about things helps me process my feelings. And so it felt good.

Nic AntoinetteIt felt creatively fulfilling to me to do that and to invite in other people to support me. Right? And I I had a very specific ask for, you know, share a story about whatever people can go look at the email if they want to. And in that, I said, I'm gonna be taking next week off because I knew there was no way that I was gonna be showing up to write any kind of email the week after my mom died. Right?

Nic AntoinetteSo I think giving people a heads up about any material changes to the work while maintaining whatever boundaries you need. So even in a non personal essay, personal story sharing business, if you were gonna be taking time off due to anything, it doesn't have to be, you know, something like death. But and it doesn't mean you have to go into detail about what those things are. But I think that question of, is it gonna affect the work? Right?

Nic AntoinetteAnd if you have a type of business where there it's not just you, perhaps it doesn't affect the work because you take time off and someone else can pick up that slack. But for me, it is only me. If I am not writing, there is no email, and it has never felt correct to me to essentially just, like, ghost people. Right? Like, it's it is very, very, very, very rare.

Nic AntoinetteI mean, I could, I think, count on one hand maybe how many times I just haven't shown up on the production schedule that I have promised. Not because I don't think people would understand, but because it's really important to me to commit to a schedule that feels realistic and then keep it. So I think there's that. I think another question is, is what's happening to me personally related to the scope of my work or the topic of my work. So I've experienced a lot of parallels between navigating various instances of personal collapse, like both of my parents dying in a six month time period and navigating the larger systems of collapse progressions that I write about.

Nic AntoinetteRight? So it doesn't at all seem strange to talk about that together. And when I say talk about, I'm not going into, like, I didn't write some kind of a an essay that was a step by step of here's what the last hours of my mom's life were. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but that doesn't feel correct. That's not what the newsletter is for.

Nic AntoinetteRight? So it's more hitting on some of the bigger picture things. And I'm a big believer that the personal is universal, at least in some ways, that there are plenty of readers of mine who maybe it's not a death, but they're going through their own personal crises. Maybe it's a health crisis. Maybe it's an income crisis.

Nic AntoinetteMaybe it's not a crisis, but just, like, something that's feeling really bad for them. And so this this question of how do we grapple with this amidst other things is one that I know that I'm not the only one facing. The question I think that's been a little bit stickier for me is a question of what am I hoping to gain by sharing this publicly? Right? Like, is it relational connection, advice, a place to process my feelings, an experience of catharsis, some kind of validation?

Nic AntoinetteRight? Like the ego thing, like we talked about before. There isn't a right or wrong answer here, I don't think. But being really honest with myself about why I wanna share something helps me decide, a, if sharing in public is actually a good idea. Right?

Nic AntoinetteIf it becomes clear that the only reason I want to share it is because I want people to tell me I'm a good person, not death related, but you know that's something else, then maybe put a pin in that for a little bit. Right? And so like to help me decide, and then if I am gonna go forward with sharing, it helps me decide how to frame it and which boundaries are needed if I do share. Right? And what aspect of any sort of personal experience does have more resonance or relevance in the work versus what is stuff that I'm gonna talk to my closest friends, my partner, you know, or someone, a family member, or something about that doesn't need to be processed in public.

Nic AntoinetteRight? And then I feel like the last question is, what am I willing and unwilling to receive public feedback or input about? Because you can be explicit as hell about your boundaries. Please don't comment on it. Please don't give me advice.

Nic AntoinettePlease don't this. Like, you can really do it, but you cannot what people are gonna show up in your inbox or in the comments about. I feel supremely lucky and grateful that I I just have the best readers in the world. I will just say that. I'm sure other people feel that about their newsletters.

Nic AntoinetteI'm not gonna tell them they're wrong, but, like so that has not happened to me really in a long time. But really knowing that anytime you put something out in the wider world, you are inviting conversation about it. And if that is not something that you are willing to have, it's probably not the time.

Amelia HrubyYeah. Ugh. I'm so grateful for you sharing those prompts and walking through how you're thinking about them. And on that final note specifically, I haven't talked about this publicly, but I I will share vaguely that a few months into the pandemic, one of my uncles passed away, and I made an Instagram post about it because I wound up catharsis. I was really fucking sad.

Amelia HrubyAnd I didn't realize that any of my family followed me on Instagram, but some people did, and they were very upset about it. And it quite literally caused, like, a schism in that that side of my family for a while, and I no longer go to family events. I'm no longer, like it's had a really big fallout that I actually think it's not about me. It's about the grief of this specific person and what he meant to our family and him being gone, how well, how that rippled, but I was the flash point that it got put on. And it taught me a lot about that final point of yours that, like, there's also something about when we're sharing big things happening in our lives that have to do with other people.

Amelia HrubyI did not think enough about those people, and I will own that. Like, I I was not thinking about my other family members who were more closely related to him, you know, than I was his kids and things. Like, I didn't realize they were on my Instagram, and I took the post down as soon as someone told me they were upset, but it had already blown up. And I still, like, experience emotional fallout from this. Like, it's still hard.

Amelia HrubyAnd I think it made me very cautious to talk about family things in public, and it has made me much more aware of who are all of the people involved in this dynamic. And that doesn't mean I never will. I love reading, like, memoir writers and how they think about, like, you know, everybody else is involved in my story. How will I include them? I don't think that means you shouldn't share or you shouldn't write it, but I've had I've learned to be much more careful and tender with the big feelings that aren't not just my big feelings, but everyone's big feelings.

Amelia HrubyAnd from that, like, I haven't shared other things that have happened in my life behind the scenes because I've really been afraid to. But most recently, with my grandmother passing, I kind of took the approach of your first question. Like, when she was in hospice, I told a few people that I have, like, ongoing Voxer chats with because I knew it would sort of impact our conversations. I'd be less present. I had less energy.

Amelia HrubyI wanted them to know that, but I didn't share that in any way with anyone who I wasn't already having a one on one conversation with. And then when she passed, I had to tell my small group program, Close Biz Friends, because I got the call minutes before we were on a coworking session together. And so I get on that call, and I was like, I actually can't be here. I'm sorry. Like, I have to I need to go be with my family.

Amelia HrubyI wanted to go see her before she went to the mortuary. And so, like, I went and did that. So, like, there was this necessity of, like, I need to communicate to the people. And this is a small group of people who've, like, invested more money in working with me. And then similarly, with her funeral arrangements, I've had to, like, not teach one of our classes live, and I'm prerecording it for them because I can't fit it into the schedule with all of the funeral arrangements, which let me tell you these days.

Amelia HrubyThere's a viewing, there's a funeral, there's a burial. I have to go to, like, five separate things.

Nic AntoinetteAnd I'm doing none of those things Yeah. Which is, like, a funny Yeah.

Amelia HrubyYeah. Well, I come from a very Catholic family, so there's a lot of different things happening there. But I guess I share all of that to say that, yeah, I feel pretty I'm running kind of a lot of different screens of, like, okay. Will this impact the work? And so I just feel like I owe it to the people who've paid me money or I've made a commitment to to just be clear about what's happening.

Amelia HrubyI don't apologize for it. I'm not like, sorry. I can't come to because because in my mind, I'm like, of course, I'm not gonna host a coworking call when I need to go be with my dad who's crying over my dead grandmother. Like, duh. And, like, no and everyone in the group was like, yeah.

Amelia HrubyDuh, Amelia. Like, oh, we're fine. We'll self organize. It's simple. And I'm so grateful to work with people who are like that, because let me tell you, when JJ's dad was dying, their job was not like that.

Amelia HrubyTheir job was like, we'll call you in hospice to get this web post up. And I was like, this is ridiculous. I hated it so much.

Nic AntoinetteWell, and that's that goes back to the question of like, what is the purpose of self employment? And there can be a lot of different answers to that. But like, if we are only gonna recreate the extremely exploitative and harmful and honestly violent systems that exist in a lot of, like, corporate work structures, why even but what are we doing? Right? And so it's like that's the both end of what I said that I can count, you know, on one hand the number of times that I just haven't shown up, you know, in the email inbox or in the podcast feed or whatever.

Nic AntoinetteAnd that doesn't mean you push yourself to do it no matter what. It means you just give a heads up. Mhmm. Hey. There's gonna be no new thing for the that it's like you're in a relationship with these people.

Nic AntoinetteAnd I like what you said about, you know, what do you tell this more small intimate group of people that you're working with versus what do you put on the podcast feed. Right? So that's also when you have a multi pronged business, which I have had in the past, the what do you tell different groups of people. Basically, the question of who has to be notified and in what detail and on what time frame. Right?

Nic AntoinetteThat it's like you wouldn't have wanted the people in Close Biz Friends to hear about this on a public podcast feed. Right? Like, that's not correct as far as that relationship. Right? So it's like, I guess that would be the fifth question, right?

Nic AntoinetteIf you are going to share something with who and what degree of detail and in what timeframe I would say.

Amelia HrubyYeah. And like, you know, I didn't like announce it in the interweb. So some interwebers will probably be learning this, but also there are people who I see in Slack, not people who I've had multiple calls with a month for the past three months. And I haven't mentioned it on the podcast before because frankly, like, also, I think the other piece that goes to the feedback is, like, I I just didn't wanna get a million I'm so sorry emails. They're so hard to reply to.

Amelia HrubyAnd I feel people's like care. And in, in the context of close biz friends, I've really appreciated those emails and I'm grateful for the w the ones who have sent it because we're in a close container together. But I, I, dear listener of the podcast, if you're feeling that like empathy for Nick and I, we're so grateful for it and you were welcome to email us, but please don't expect to reply because it's really hard to reply to.

Nic AntoinetteYeah. I respond to pretty much all comments on my newsletter, not out of a sense of obligation, but because like I said, the relational connectivity is a huge piece of it for me. On the small piece that I wrote the day before my mom died, I responded to nothing pretty much. I think I responded to one thing. It was, like, the first one that came in, and it felt incredibly relevant.

Nic AntoinetteAnd then after that, I appreciated everything that everybody said, and I was like, this is this interaction is complete. I will actually not be responding to all of these, and that's great. And I guarantee you there's nobody who has any sort of feels any sort of way about that.

Amelia HrubySo No. Not at all. So thank you for talking about that with me. I'm always so grateful to be in conversation with you, and I look forward to doing more of these now that, you know, we're both have a little more capacity on the other side of some big personal life events. So just to wrap us up, I wanna hear what's on deck in your life and your work for the next month or so, Nick.

Amelia HrubyWhat do

Nic Antoinetteyou have coming up? What's on deck in the month of April? Maybe I'll do the same kind of split work stuff, life stuff. What's on deck work wise? Distributing those micro grants that I mentioned on April 9, which would have been my mom's 70 birthday.

Nic AntoinetteSo it feels like a sweet way to honor her and use some of her money to do that. And then really just continuing to show up to the newsletter each and every week with devotion to both the creative process itself and to that relational connectivity with readers that I love so much. One of the things that I've really had to and I'm honestly still unlearning is the sort of efficiency productivity mindset of get through the thing as fast as possible or, you know, as efficiently as possible. And I have at certain times tried to apply that to newsletter writing, and it literally just takes all the joy out of it for me that the point of it for me is a creative process. And the gift I have of that being the only thing I'm doing in my business is that I actually don't have to be so streamlined because there were periods of time where I was a lot more busy that it was like, okay.

Nic AntoinetteThis is the time block that I have to write this week's newsletter, and that's not the case anymore. And so I've been trying to be to almost, like, shift my mindset into more of that, like, artist maker mindset than, like, the business owner mindset to be like, I love writing.

Amelia HrubyMhmm.

Nic AntoinetteDoing it for more hours is actually a win because I like the process of doing it. And so I feel like that is important for me this month. And then kind of in my offline life, spring planting in the garden, getting all the veggies going, and then aiming for my first backpacking trip of the year, weather pending hopefully the last week of April. I've mapped out a four day section. I've been section hiking the Appalachian Trail over the last however many years, and there's just, like, this weird little chunk that I'm missing not too far from me.

Nic AntoinetteSo gonna do that, which sort of also goes along with letting athletic training for ultra distance events take up so much more space in my mind and in my daily life because it's the thing that gives me the most fulfillment and joy at being alive, if I'm honest. And that I'm like, okay. Well, the world is collapsing. We are allowed to have the radiant joy of being all in on the pursuit of something that we care about even if that thing is sort of frivolous or meaningless, almost especially if it is, right, that things are really serious, and we need to show up to the things that are serious, and that's really important. And, also, what is the purpose of being alive if we're not having joy?

Nic AntoinetteAnd not everything has to be, like, purpose driven in this really big way. You know? I wanna hike really fast for long distances, and that matters not at all in the scope of the catastrophes of the world, but it makes me feel alive and embodied in myself. So I'm just really trying to lean into the, like, be more alive. I love that.

Nic AntoinetteWe don't know how much time we have. So do the thing that makes you feel alive. YOLO. I mean, listen, right? What is, what is the less harmful version of that?

Nic AntoinetteWhat's on deck for you in April?

Amelia HrubyYeah. So coming up to Off the Grid, we have a lot of episodes I'm excited about. I have also been leaning into, like, now that I have more time to create, I don't have to batch so far in advance. I can actually, like, do intros the week of or be really present, and I'm really enjoying that, especially with the AI series. Like, I was recording a lot of that as it was happening or, like, weaving in listener feedback as I was going, and I loved that.

Amelia HrubySo doing the podcast, we also have the Astro and Biz Planning Summit coming up in April. So for folks who have not noticed the emails or the mentions I've been doing, it's a totally free event that that I'm doing with a bunch of interweb and clubhouse members. On April 17, we'll have a whole day of astrology and creativity workshops. And then on the twenty fourth, there will be a panel on intuitive integrity, and I'm gonna lead a workshop on spring business planning. Totally free event.

Amelia HrubySign up at the link in the show notes. When you do sign up, your email does not go to all 10 people involved. It doesn't even go on the off the grid list. It just stays with this one event. I'm trying to be super clear, not using squeezy summit strategies, but just, like, radical generosity.

Amelia HrubyI will also have an episode coming up about summit. So if you're like, Amelia, I don't even know what you're talking about. I will explain the summit model to you. I will explain why I think it can be great and then how I think it can go wrong. I think that's gonna go live on the seventeenth as well.

Amelia HrubySo that's coming your way. I feel like everything I do is so meta. It's like I'm doing the thing. I'm teaching you how to do the thing. I'm critiquing the thing at the same time.

Amelia HrubyLike, so many layers.

Nic AntoinetteThat's what we love about you. Give me all of the layers. Yeah.

Amelia HrubyAnd in the middle of the summit, it's my 30 birthday. So I'm a late Aries season baby, so I'm really excited. And for that, we're actually hosting a musician who's an off the grid listener and is doing a little DIY tour and coming through Lincoln and emailed me and was like, do you know anywhere I can play or stay? And I was like, yeah, stay with me, play in my friend's backyard. So we're doing that right after my birthday.

Amelia HrubySo I'm pumped about that too.

Nic AntoinetteObsessed. Amazing. Love that for you.

Amelia HrubyMe too. It's gonna be a great April, I think. And at the end of it, you'll be back on the podcast because this is a thing we do now. This is a thing

Nic Antoinettewe do now. Right? Look forward to being here again in

Amelia Hrubya month. Yes. Can't wait. Well, listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. I'm so grateful for you.

Amelia HrubyGo subscribe to Nick's newsletter, and until next time, we will see you off the grid.

Speaker 2I kinda hate social media feeds on my brain like a bacteria. If you're in my wake of bacteria. If you're in my Wikipedia, it'll say I kinda hate social media. Host a picture of myself. Sacro this?

Speaker 2Do you like this? Leave a comment?

Amelia HrubyOkay. That was an abridged version of Social Media by Surfer Boy and Rectangle. To hear the entire song, find Surfer Boy on Spotify or head to the link in the show notes. Thanks so much to them for sharing the song with us, as well as to Melissa Caitlin Carter, who sings our theme song that you hear at the start of every show. I'm your host, Emilia Frooby, and if you enjoyed this episode, I hope you will download the free Leading Social Media Toolkit at offthegrid.funtoolkit.

Amelia HrubyUntil next time, I will see you Off the Grid. Hello again. It's me, Amelia. Remember me? That voice you just heard seconds ago?

Amelia HrubyI'm popping back in because I wanna share a special gift with you or three gifts in fact as thanks for staying tuned in to the very end of this episode. This spring, I led a program called Close Biz Friends inside the interweb, and I helped people create resonant free resources that they could share strategically on their marketing channels and then amplify their visibility through cross promotion. And I'm arriving here to share a few resources that folks created in that program with you. The first is from Andy of Spiral Tending. Andy's a therapist and they made a super helpful toolkit with 10 ways to market your healing business when time and money are scarce.

Amelia HrubyI got a few new ideas from it myself, and if you're a healer, I highly recommend heading to the link in the show notes and grabbing it right now. The second gift I wanna offer you is from Heather Backs of Small Business Rodeo. Heather's created a simple tech stack field guide that is an essential resource for anyone who's ever wondered, what invoicing tool should I use? Or where do I find a good calendar link? How do I pick a website platform or an email service provider?

Amelia HrubyIf you've ever wondered any of those things, then you're definitely going to want this amazing Notion dashboard full of recommended tools and advice on building your tech stack without overcomplicating it. So head to the show notes to grab that free resource today. And then finally, Julia Kiambi has just launched the free Soulepreneur Corner, which provides support for the inner work side of running a business. Julia is a medical doctor turned intuitive guide, and her Soulepreneur Corner missives are beautiful compliments to the very practical, tactical work that we do here at Off The Grid. So if you could use Soulepreneur Corner messages or a simple tech stack field guide or 10 ways to market your healing business when time and money are scarce, head to the show notes to grab those free resources today.

Amelia HrubyAnd thank you so much again for being here. I am forever grateful that you tune into the show. And until next time, you know where to find me Off the Grid.