♾️ Take the Break Before the Break Takes You — Learning How to Pause & Quit with Nic Antoinette
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"But like this stuff is so deeply internalized or can be so deeply internalized of, like, who deserves a break or what qualifies for it that it's like even me with, like, literally decades of this sort of anti capitalist, like, anti productivity culture, like still is like, This is a reason to take"
"Maybe it's just more community props. Maybe it's just conversations. And, like, it kept getting smaller and smaller. You're like, what if instead of four hours a week, it takes me two hours a week and then one hour a week, and now it's, like, fifteen minutes a week, but that is still too much. That's been your version. My version was like, okay. Instead of having 20 clients, I'm gonna have 10 clients. And it was like, what if I just have eight clients? It was like, what if I just keep my longest term and best friend clients? And it was like, what if I just keep my best friend clients? And then at a certain point, I was like, I don't want any clients. Actually, I I just have to have no clients. And for you, doing less didn't mean making less money. For me, every time I release clients, it's, like, less income. Like, it it there's a different financial stake in the less like, the half sizing of everything each time."
"You know, sometimes other people have like a clarity about us that we, but you're not ready to do it yet, you know? And that's beautiful. Give yourself what it is that you need. And if what you need is a longer timeline or a certain amount of savings, but I have experienced even because I also am not willing to take those kind of risks with my financial well-being. With my income, yes. But that's because right now I have savings. Right? That's was unexpected. But it's like something does change for me psychologically when I have decided to end something, and I am then working toward that. Like periods of time where I have been like, this is unsustainable. I need to make a change, but I need X amount of months of money in the bank account. I then it's almost like I no longer feel the stress and stress and pressure of making the decision. I'm like, okay, now I'm on the path. And there can be something freeing about starting the, like putting the plan in place, even if the thing is six months or a year away, because it changes the way that you view it. You don't feel trapped anymore. Yeah. I think that's incredibly true. And I think really this whole episode has a lot of us just like grappling with that. Like the reason we're taking breaks is because something has changed and we have changed. And a break is one way that we are trying to sort of catch up. We're trying to let our business or our writing or our online image catch up with whoever we are now as we figure that out. And sometimes the change that has happened to self is evident really quickly, and you can move forward sort of with that new thing. And as someone who's a very fast processor and makes a lot of quick shifts and pivots internally, I think that's what's been throwing me off about this is this actually feels like the first time I don't wanna say that I don't know who I am because that sounds I don't know, maybe more dramatic that I mean it, but I feel really unmoored. And that's not a problem if I'm not trying to write like first person essays in the present moment. I feel like everything I write I'm second guessing myself. Is that really true?"
"It's like in a perfect world or in certainly in the world that I would want to live in, nobody should have to have negative health outcomes because of their job. And sure, maybe there's an argument to be made if we were to go back in time that you could pull back in just enough ways that you weren't getting migraines, but still making enough money. But it's like, there's so much of the capitalism of it all, like wrapped up in this, that, you know, the truth is some of the things we do for joy in our businesses, some of the things I'd argue we do for ego or validation and not and not saying that that's a problem. Right? It feels good to get validation, but and then some of the things we do for money or some combination of, you know or we do for relational connections. It's not only those things, but I think those are the big ones. And I think the third rail, the thing you're not supposed to talk about in creative online business self employment is the fact that sometimes it absolutely sucks. And I think that there's, there's really, and this has shifted a little bit maybe, but there, at least since I got into it in 2010, it has been such a narrative of ditch the cubicle, be free, follow your passion, do the thing that you love. And it's never going to feel like work a day in your life and, you know, insert a thousand other cliches here. And yes, so much of what I have done in self employment has been so much more pleasurable and given me so much more time, wealth, and agency than I had in previous, you know, paid employment beforehand."
Moments where Nic Antoinette names something — and contradicts it inside the same episode. Both quotes are verbatim from the transcript.
"But like this stuff is so deeply internalized or can be so deeply internalized of, like, who deserves a break or what qualifies for it that it's like even me with, like, literally decades of this sort of anti capitalist, like, anti productivity culture, like still is like, This is a reason to take"
"And so like that sort of like disengaging from the thing mentally, like that requires different things. And I'm sure there is more that I could have done to be able to not have it be a thing where it's like low key in my mind, but I the way the reason that I'm saying this to you now about the, like, needing to take the break from the work. And this is the first time that we've really talked about this to this degree, because in the last twenty four hours, the most honest thing that I can say is when I walked out of that doctor's appointment and was like, potentially cancer, potentially not cancer. One of the first things I thought was, okay, I can really take a break from the newsletter. This is a good enough reason."
Both hosts start from a shared belief that you override the hard parts of self-employment because you're grateful and afraid of losing what you've built. Accumulated grief, health consequences, and a cancer-scare doctor's appointment force the question into the open. They trace how they each kept shrinking their workloads until even the minimum was too much — and arrive at the same realization: they've been waiting for a 'good enough reason' to stop. The episode ends unresolved, with both committing publicly to their breaks rather than reporting back from the other side.
Lived experience and personal reflection shared mid-transition. Neither host is speaking from resolved hindsight — both are describing situations that are still unfolding at the time of recording.
"Yeah. You know? I feel like what you're saying is some version of, like, you wanna take the break before the break takes you."
— Amelia Hruby
"I feel like there has been this real cataclysmic shift, this real tectonic shift that I don't even understand yet. But this experience of for as complicated as my relationship with my parents was, I never doubted that they loved me unconditionally, which I know isn't everyone's relationship with their caregivers. But having the only two people in the world who'd love me unconditionally be gone has really fucked me up. And I, like, don't know how to have a public presence at this time. And it's not just about that."
— Nic Antoinette
"And I was like, okay. And that brought up"
— Nic Antoinette
"No, but this is so real. Okay. This is the thing that people don't say out loud. Like in the deepest parts of my burnout, when I fantasize about something horrific happening to me, so I can actually stop working, that's when I know I'm like really severely fucked and I have to change something. Like, and I've gotten there many, many times in my life."
— Amelia Hruby
14 chapters — tap to expand the full text
Amelia introduces the season nine finale and welcomes Nic back to the show, teasing upcoming fifth anniversary plans including a rebrand and merch.
Amelia HrubyHello, and welcome to Off the Grid, a podcast about, as I've like to say lately, live, laugh, loving in your online business, creative work through whatever the hell is happening in the world right now. I'm your host, Emilia Hruby, and today, I am here for our season nine finale. This season, I have shared so many episodes, like, over 40, I think, in this season alone. And so I arrive here triumphant, excited, and extremely ready for a break, friends. This is gonna be our last episode before our summer break, which is time that I take off the podcast every single year.
Amelia HrubyAnd on that note, today's conversation is going to be with my dear friend and collaborator, Nick Antoinette, and we're gonna talk about breaks. So what it means to take a break, how we know what kind of break we need, when breaks are decided for us versus when we choose them, and we'll see how all of that unfolds. So, hi, Nick. Welcome back to the show.
Nic AntoinetteHi. Congrats on nine seasons. This is such a big, beautiful body of work that you have
Amelia Hrubybuilt. Thank you. Yeah. I'm really feeling that. And the secret news for folks tuning in, next spring is gonna be five years of off the grid, and I am already making very fun plans for a rebrand, for some merch, for some very cool things happening.
Amelia HrubySo my brain is not only at the end of season nine, it's also, like, in season twelve or whatever will be happening, but I'm really feeling how big this body of work is and how much I love it.
Nic AntoinetteWhat kind of merch do we get? Can I have a hat or something? What's happening?
Amelia HrubyI think hats, stickers, shirts, that's the kind of vibe I have in mind.
Nic AntoinetteGreat. Okay. Well, backwards hat
Amelia Hrubyis my whole gender at this time, so great. I love that. So, Nick, as we arrive here, how are you feeling today in this moment? Like what's opening for you right now?
Nic shares that she just had a distressing doctor's appointment and is waiting three weeks for a biopsy to find out if she has cancer, while also finding joy in hiking, ultra running fandom, and watching her sheep and dogs interact.
Nic AntoinetteOh, I I kinda feel bad.
Amelia HrubyI feel like each time
Nic AntoinetteI come to this episode, I'm like, listen to all of this dramatic stuff that's been going on in my life. And also just some seasons of life are like that. I have been thinking so much about that line of Mary Oliver poetry, where she says it's a serious thing just to be alive on this fresh morning in this broken world. I feel like that is me every single day right now. And, really, the fresh morning, the gratitude for being alive, the really trying to be with and hold all the things that feel broken, you know, bigger picture and then for me, personally.
Nic AntoinetteSo I feel like that line of poetry very much sums up how I'm feeling. As you know, on a personal friend level, at the time of this recording, yesterday, I had a distressing doctor's appointment that I actually don't really wanna get into too much right now. But, basically, I'm in the period of time where I now have to wait three weeks to have a procedure and, you know, a biopsy of things that's basically, do I have cancer or not? Which feels like a big thing. And I'm decently good at the compartmentalization that's required in a waiting phase.
Nic AntoinetteThat's something that I was reflecting on this morning that I have the appointment set. There's literally nothing that I can do, but the last twenty four hours, and then we had some medical stuff happen with the dogs last night. I feel like my entire text thread to you yesterday was just like SOS SOS SOS. It's like over and over again. So it is a testament to how much I love both you and in general, the off the grid audience and community that I still feel excited to do this today.
Nic AntoinetteLike, I think there's, you know, it's it's nice sometimes to have something else to focus on when something feels like pretty dire, but in the spirit of the Mary Oliver thing, you know, the just to be alive on the fresh morning in the Brooklyn world, there's a lot that I feel like, okay, that's intense. And then I'm also finding so much joy in a couple of things in my life. Getting stronger as a hiker, for sure, has felt really good. Ultra running fandom. I I wrote about this on my newsletter, again, at the time of this recording, the Western States one hundred, which is a big deal in the ultra running world is this weekend.
Nic AntoinetteAnd I have just been, like, listening to or watching every pre race content that I I mean, it's it's I usually don't listen to podcasts all day long, but I am, I feel like at this point, there's so many of them that I am just, if I'm not actively talking to someone, I'm listening to a podcast about this race. And then the other thing that's bringing me a lot of joy is the interspecies relationships that are happening in my household with the three dogs and the two sheep and the 12 chickens. And I don't know because getting the sheep was such a YOLO, like, la it wasn't, as we've talked about in previous months, not something that I really planned for. I didn't know a ton about sheep. I guess I don't I should have assumed they have personalities.
Nic AntoinetteI feel like every creature has a personality, but they have such personalities, and they're so goofy and funny. And my partner and I sit outside in the sheep pasture pretty much every single night after dinner and just hang out with them and pet them and watch them do shenanigans, and it's, like, incredible. So that's how I'm feeling. How are you feeling today?
Amelia describes taking July off from Zoom and public visibility, pausing the podcast through summer, moving her newsletter from Substack to Ghost, and officially winding down her podcast production business Softer Sounds.
Amelia HrubyI think today, I am honestly, my primary feeling is that I'm perfectly caffeinated. I have had one cold brew and two sips of my, like, second pour of cold brew, and that is, like, just the right amount of caffeine for me to record. I think that the other things coming up for me are just, like, I'm arriving here really in, like, the last leg of my spring. And I am, like, crawling to the finish line of trying to get to July 1 because as I'll share in a moment, like, I'm taking July off mostly from work, but entirely from Zoom calls and being visible to the public. I'm not making podcasts.
Amelia HrubyI'm not doing interweb calls. Like, I'm really stepping back in July, and I just need to get to that moment. So I feel like I have the right amount of caffeine today to get the work done that I need to get done, but I'm just really looking forward to, like, not needing caffeine to get through the day again. Like, I really need to just, like, step back and I don't even know what the right word is. Like, the metaphor I keep using that I've shared with you is that I just feel like I have been a car with an empty gas tank for a while, and I just keep putting $10 of gas in the tank.
Amelia HrubyAnd gas is getting rapidly more expensive as we go, so it's less and less gas every time, and I just, like, kind of am on fumes. And that's okay. I'm making it on fumes, but, like, I really gotta get to July 1. That's my finish line. That's when I can turn the car off.
Amelia HrubyThat's when I can get in the pool. And every ounce of my being is is, like, oriented toward that moment right now.
Nic AntoinetteWill you drink less caffeine in the month of July?
Amelia HrubyYeah. Definitely. I I can tell when I'm relying on it versus when I'm enjoying it, and I don't like to feel that reliance. So, yes, in July, I will probably taper off and hopefully back to kind of, like, none or just, like, a little bit in the morning when I take my walk with JJ. So we'll see how that goes.
Amelia HrubyBut, yeah, definitely not two mugs of cold brew a day.
Nic AntoinetteSo you just mentioned the less caffeinated, no Zoom July. Tell us about your summer business plans.
Amelia HrubyYeah. So the most obvious one for folks here is that the podcast is going to take a break this summer. So there will not be public episodes of Off the Grid through the summer, probably not again until September. Gonna try to take July and August off of this main public feed here. There will be a few episodes inside the clubhouse.
Amelia HrubySo next week in the clubhouse, I'm going to share an episode on, like, my finances from the first six months of this year. I've brought back my quarterly, like, sort of financial reviews inside the clubhouse, especially because I'm making such big business shifts. And I kind of wanna keep closer track of how money's coming in, what's making money, what's not making money this year. So next week, that episode will go live in the clubhouse for paid subscribers. So if you wanna hear it, you will have to upgrade to paid.
Amelia HrubyAnd then for the rest of July, I think the clubhouse is gonna be pretty quiet because I'm gonna make the move from Substack to Ghost. So I'm gonna be, like, deep in the back end of trying to get the Ghost website set up, getting all the Stripe subscriptions transferred, and that takes a lot of, like, admin work and communicating with different parties. So, yeah, I think that's one big thing happening this summer. Public podcast pause, private feed moving to ghost. And then once that transition happens, there'll be some more fun conversations that are Clubhouse only.
Amelia HrubyI've talked to a few cool collaborators and people. I've been saving those recordings. I'm excited to share them. So nothing happening on the public feed. Cool stuff happening inside the clubhouse this summer.
Amelia HrubyAnd then, you know, the real thing that I'm grappling with on, like, a deeper, bigger level that I really feel like I need this sort of break from public perception to go through is I'm really trying to slow down and even sunset softer sounds over the course of the summer and into the fall. This year, I sort of declared I was taking a six month sabbatical from softer sounds at the start of the year, and we're about done with that six months. And what I've realized is that I don't want to bring it back. I think I am done with editing podcasts for other people. I'm done with that being my primary business.
Amelia HrubyAnd I have been sort of slowly making that change, but I think I do want to kind of, like, officially announce it in the summer. You know, July will be July 1, actually, the day this episode comes out, will be officially five years since I registered the business in the state of Nebraska. And I'm just really feeling that anniversary and sort of a desire to just communicate, for instance, to the softer sounds mailing list who I haven't talked to in six months that, like, this business is not coming back in the way that it existed and decide what I'm doing with my podcast courses. And, like, I feel like my sabbatical pressed pause on all of that, but this summer, I want to really sort of intentionally wrap up everything that I want to wrap up there.
Nic AntoinetteHow is that feeling emotionally to let go of something that was such a huge part of your life and probably identity for a while?
Amelia HrubyIt's feeling really good. I laugh because I feel like it I think I feel like it should be bittersweet. I feel like it should be sad or I should be experiencing grief, but, actually, I just feel so ready. I think that the longer I've been on pause at softer sounds, the more I've realized how much I was overriding and repressing the, like, frustration and struggle and burnout that I was experiencing in that side of my business and my work. And even, you know, you and I have talked about and I've shared before, like, I got pretty severe carpal tunnel at one point.
Nic and Amelia discuss the gap between what self-employed creatives say publicly versus privately — the burnout, health consequences, and fear of losing income that go unspoken because of client relationships, gratitude narratives, and cultural pressure.
Amelia HrubyI had to get a whole, like, eye workup because I was getting migraines from being on my screen so much. Like, when I look back, I'm like, wow. I didn't realize the extent that I was overworking and overriding. And now that I'm on the other side of it, I'm like, I don't wanna go back to that. I don't grieve the business.
Amelia HrubyI just look forward to what's coming next.
Nic AntoinetteIt's like in a perfect world or in certainly in the world that I would want to live in, nobody should have to have negative health outcomes because of their job. And sure, maybe there's an argument to be made if we were to go back in time that you could pull back in just enough ways that you weren't getting migraines, but still making enough money. But it's like, there's so much of the capitalism of it all, like wrapped up in this, that, you know, the truth is some of the things we do for joy in our businesses, some of the things I'd argue we do for ego or validation and not and not saying that that's a problem. Right? It feels good to get validation, but and then some of the things we do for money or some combination of, you know or we do for relational connections.
Nic AntoinetteIt's not only those things, but I think those are the big ones. And I think the third rail, the thing you're not supposed to talk about in creative online business self employment is the fact that sometimes it absolutely sucks. And I think that there's, there's really, and this has shifted a little bit maybe, but there, at least since I got into it in 2010, it has been such a narrative of ditch the cubicle, be free, follow your passion, do the thing that you love. And it's never going to feel like work a day in your life and, you know, insert a thousand other cliches here. And yes, so much of what I have done in self employment has been so much more pleasurable and given me so much more time, wealth, and agency than I had in previous, you know, paid employment beforehand.
Nic AntoinetteAnd there can be this like, it's an interesting question of why did you override those signals. Right? Was it because you were afraid that you weren't gonna be able to pay rent? Is it because you're afraid that if you take your foot off the gas, that you're gonna lose everything that you've built, how much of that is true versus how much of that is fear? Right.
Nic AntoinetteThat, there's just something in this that I feel like there isn't really a space, at least publicly, maybe in kind of like a private peer to peer support, you know, business owner type of situation. But there isn't a lot of public conversation that I have seen about navigating this aspect of stuff, because I think everyone is so conscious of, I don't know, like not wanting to seem resentful or want like it, it's, it's a delicate needle to thread, I think is how I feel.
Amelia HrubyYeah, I completely agree. And for me, I think that it comes through as both like, I don't want to make my clients feel bad. You know? Right? Like, I don't want the people who have hired me to be like, Amelia doesn't like doing this.
Amelia HrubyShould I even hire her? Like, that's a weird vibe. Don't wanna do that. I also for me personally, there's so much baggage around, like, complaining or not being grateful. Right?
Amelia HrubyLike, I don't wanna complain about these things that I've chosen to do. I don't wanna appear ungrateful for any type of success. Like, those are very cultural and, I think, gendered things that come up for me in trying to discuss when things can be hard. And I also just fully have a chip on my shoulder where I'm like, well, if I wanted this, now I can't complain that I have it. And so I think that was a big part in addition to
Nic Antoinettewhat you mentioned, like the fear of just, if I take my foot off the gas, will all of this go away? Also everything you just said, you know, if, if you were talking really publicly about being unwell because of your work and not wanting to do it, I wouldn't hire you. So it's, it's, it, it's real. Right? There are re like, there are reasons why this kind of stuff isn't talked about, but I guess what I'm saying is I think that it's not surprising that you're willing to talk about this in more detail now that you feel ready to sunset it.
Nic AntoinetteRight. And there's, I think the open question is what do we do with that? Right. And there's, there is no right answer because I'm certainly not advocating for every single person. Tell all of the woes of your employment out loud in a way that's potentially gonna mess up your ability to put food on the table.
Nic AntoinetteRight? Like that's not the answer either, but there is, I think there is something there's something here, but I, I don't know what it is that I want. Right? Like from more of this discourse, but I think I'm just naming that there is a real tension there that from my experience is talked about behind the scenes. And sometimes there really is a difference between what people are like saying publicly in their newsletter and what they're telling me privately, you know?
Amelia HrubyOh, yeah. And I really struggle with that even as like a friend or peer sometimes where I'm like, Hello, my friend, you do not have to tell the whole world what you're going through personally, but it is weird to watch you pretend everything is a okay when I know it's not.
Amelia connects her spring losses — her grandmother and her dog Zoe — to the different kinds of breaks she's had to take, distinguishing between an acute grief-driven pause and the longer arc of winding down Softer Sounds.
Nic AntoinetteAnd that question of like, what do we owe to each other when it comes to honesty and business? I don't know. And again, I don't think there's a rubric of if this, then this, I think that this is a complex thing that a lot of people are navigating, and I have certainly been navigating for the last fifteen plus years, you know?
Amelia HrubyYeah, absolutely. And, you know, just also the events of my spring in general, you know, we talked in our last conversation about me going through, like, the portal of grief around my grandmother dying. Since then, we we didn't record a month ago because I was going through my beloved dog Zoe dying and, like, how this sort of, like, weaves in for me is that there are so many reasons that we need breaks. There are so many reasons that work is not working for us. There are so many reasons that we need to step back or away or quit something or do something different.
Amelia HrubyAnd sometimes it's because somebody dies and you get thrust into, you know, that experience. Like, and I had to figure out how to take breaks around, particularly Zoe's passing. Right? Like, I had planned to teach come to class. I postponed it.
Amelia HrubyI canceled all of my calls for two weeks. I was like, I can't do anything. And it was very acute, and it was very, like, time sensitive. And then I moved forward. And part of why my June has not been as restful as I wanted is because everything that happened was supposed to happen during that break got pushed into June.
Amelia HrubyYou know, that's like a scheduling break that I took because of an acute grief. But then shifting softer sounds has been a much bigger like, it started with a six month sabbatical, and now it's turning into something else. So, you know, that's been my experience of thinking about breaks this year. I know that you also have taken many different types of break. It's in your work, and you've been sort of asking this question of, like, what is a break and what do I need?
Amelia HrubySo I sort of wanted to take us into talking about breaks in creative small business by posing that question to you. Like, how do you know what kind of break you need? What are ways that you've felt into that question?
Nic and Amelia explore how to diagnose what's actually not working — whether it's the quantity of work, the type of work, or something else — and how experimentation rather than a single perfect answer tends to be the real process.
Nic AntoinetteIt's a good question that how to know what kind of break you need, and I think also really ties into what you were so honestly sharing before of, even when you do know what kind of break you need, is that available to you? Right? So I think there's a lot of layers to this. I mean, like I said, I've been full time self employed since very early twenty ten, and that has looked so many different ways, and there have been so many different kinds of breaks. And, you know, I think for me, it's trying to get clarity on the specifics of it.
Nic AntoinetteI can usually tell when I'm feeling like things aren't working, but it's harder to know why. Is it that I need less work time, you know, in a, you're getting migraines from being on the screen too much. It might have nothing to do with the type of work, but literally just the number of hours that you are doing a specific thing. I could see this also coming up if someone's job involves a lot of travel. Right?
Nic AntoinetteMaybe it's not that you don't like the travel or you don't like going to speak at a place or going on book tour or doing whatever. It's actually just that it's too many time zones and that you're tired. Right? So sometimes it's that the work itself is totally fine and great, but it's the quantity. Right?
Nic AntoinetteAnd so is that a temporary break and then getting back into the same schedule if you have to? Is that finding a way to change you know, with right sizing, there's, like, a frequency aspect to it, I think. Or and not that it's only these two things, but or does it need to be different work? That it's not too many hours, it's not too much emotional or energetic capacity. Right?
Nic AntoinetteLike, that all feels fine. It's just something about the work itself isn't resonating, which if I were, you know, assessing everything that you shared, like that seems like the softer sounds issue. I mean, it may be it's both. Right? It's the time issue, but it's not, it's not like you're sunsetting softer sounds and not working.
Nic AntoinetteYou're doing that at the same time that you have been really ramping up the off the grid world and universe in these gorgeous and time and energetic consuming ways. Right? So it actually is this type of work is not what you want to be doing. And so making the shift into this other type of work that probably your end goal is to not then wind up with migraines and carpal tunnel from off the grid. Right?
Nic AntoinetteLike that's not the goal like to to so it's it's sometimes it's both. Sometimes it's right sizing and also, you know, shifting the work. And I think that's hard because there's there's nuance to what you actually can change versus is what you tell yourself you can or can't change. There has been plenty of times that I have told myself the story in my business that I can't take time off, or I can't slow down, or I can't do a thing differently because insert reasons here, money, other things. And sometimes those things were valid and sometimes it was just fear.
Nic AntoinetteAnd it's, it's hard to know, right? The whole like leap and the net will appear. It's like, maybe, but maybe not. And so I think there's a lot of experimentation in that. And the times that have felt most frustrating for me have been either when I know what it is that I need, but I don't know how to have it.
Nic AntoinetteLike that's, I'd say most consistently both inside and outside of my business. It's very infrequent that the struggle is to understand the what it's to understand the how. Like I do often know what the truth is. I either don't know how to implement it, or I'm afraid of the ramifications of implementing it, whether that's letting people down or losing money or, you know, whatever. And so, I mean, I've been thinking about this so much just in 2025, taking, you know, the grown up gap year that we talked about in our episode, I think in January.
Nic AntoinetteAnd what I wrestled with of, do I put all my business on pause or do I do it, but keep the newsletter? Do I pause the news? Like, just understanding what that break looked like. And then I'm in a which we can talk about. I'm in a whole other sort of questioning aspect around that right now.
Nic AntoinetteAnd there can be a lot of emotions that come up around taking breaks or making shifts.
Amelia HrubyI really liked your point around, perhaps we can find clarity in the what we need, but the how to get it can be a really challenging question. And I think that really clearly maps on to how I've handled these things as softer sounds. Because when I started having these pain and health issues, because specifically of the work of audio editing. So, like, my carpal tunnel was being activated by all of the fine movements of editing so many hours of audio. And I tried, you know, first, I was like, maybe I need a different mouse.
Amelia HrubyMaybe I need a different chair. Like, I started with ergonomics. Maybe that's the how. And then that wasn't working. I got new glasses to help with the migraines, and that actually did work.
Amelia HrubyThe migraines were really shifted after I did that. But when that wasn't enough, when that what wasn't the answer, what I actually did first was grow the business. I was like, okay. If I can't edit anymore, what if I get more clients? I hire more editors, and I edit less because I actually scale up and I move myself to a different role.
Amelia HrubySo the first how I experimented with was actually, let me get a bigger business. This isn't working at this size. I'm gonna scale up. And then that actually worked for a while. I had a good year where I had editors, I had an assistant producer, I wasn't doing very much editing and things were working.
Amelia HrubyAnd then, I think as we talked about earlier in the year, I shared in my five years of softer sounds episode, the market shifted. I didn't have as many clients. I couldn't afford the team that I had built at that scale, and it went back to me having to do more of the work myself again, at least if I wanted the business to remain profitable. So there, the choice was, like, alright. Do I choose profit, or do I risk, like, this nerve damage again?
Amelia HrubyWhich is, like, a wild question, but also during that time, like, I had to pay rent, prices were increasing, things got more expensive. So I share all that to say that, like, I experimented with so many hows before I came to this decision and felt secure enough with the growth of off the grid to, like, step into actually sunsetting the business.
Nic AntoinetteI'm really glad that you're bringing this up because the answer is experimentation. Like, you don't know which how is going to work until you have tried it and see like, it is possible that getting a different mouse would have solved the issue. It is possible that the market doesn't change and the bigger business continues to feel good. Right. And I think there's, there's a little bit of a fantasy of a finish line that can happen.
Nic AntoinetteIt's like if I just find the perfect business model or the, like, exact marketing strategy or, like, the number of posts on social media or on the new to do, then I'll never have to make these decisions again. And if I have learned anything in the last, whatever, fifteen years, it's that at least for me, that is a fantasy. Things are always shifting. You always have to be responsive to to yourself, your changes, to your readers, customers, clients, to their needs and desires, to your capability, to just so many things. So there's like letting go of like the the prince charming version of the business model.
Nic AntoinetteRight. And being willing to try stuff and always being in that sort of feedback experimentation loop and being honest with when things aren't working. Like, I can when you said the thing about the migraines, some some listeners might know some years ago, I was having a lot of eye pain, more of like an eye focusing issue and that I I had to I learned through experimentation that I had to cap Zooms at two hours. That I I would host I'm a big like, I like in-depth things, right, that I would host things that were like three and a half or four hours on Zoom. And even with breaks that I would basically need to have my eyes closed for like a week afterwards.
Nic AntoinetteI'm like, that's not sustainable. So it actually was an easy fix. Just don't schedule Zooms that are more than two hours. Boom. Solved it.
Nic AntoinetteDidn't have to think about that again. Right? And so sometimes the first thing you try is the thing, and sometimes it's not. And I think that we can have a narrative around what's wrong with me that I can't find the answer. Right?
Nic AntoinetteLike capital t, capital a, and there might not be one. And that's that sucks sometimes. And also is, like, the nature of, like, how can we make the I don't wanna say constant experimentation because that implies that nothing is ever smooth and working, which isn't true. But I think there's always at least one area of our business where we're sort of like, You know, maybe maybe it gets really smooth over here in this area, and that seems like it's working. But over here in this other area, we need to experiment or maybe it feels really smooth for a season.
Nic AntoinetteLike you said, you had a year of having a bigger team and not say you never had any problems, but where that particular issue was mostly solved. So it's just like, yeah, there's a lot of kind of riding the waves, I think.
Amelia HrubyYeah, I completely agree. I always think of the idiom that like the only certain things in life are death and taxes. And I think it's true in business and well as well. Like if you run a funeral home or you're an accountant, you can probably have a pretty consistent, certain business. But, otherwise, the rest of us are just out here swimming in the ocean of the market and the world and everything that's happening.
Nic describes putting her entire business on pause except her newsletter at the start of 2025, and now feeling she needs to pause that too — grappling with the deaths of both parents, feeling like a different person, and needing to be publicly unwitnessed for a while.
Amelia HrubySo, yeah, I think the sooner we can embrace experimentation instead of dread change, the more satisfied we can be in our business overall.
Nic AntoinetteAnd then, like you said that you feel really ready with the sunsetting softer sounds and that almost phantom feeling of, well, should I be grieving? Like, should this be more complicated than it is? Right? I think that's interesting too, because I feel like where I'm at with my thoughts on business stuff, it's almost the opposite. Like I'm really in a lot of feelings about it.
Nic AntoinetteSometimes the thing that is true, you don't want to be true. And that is exactly how I feel.
Amelia HrubyYeah. I really wanna ask you about this, and I wanna hear more about the sort of breaks and shifts that you're making in your business. So can you just remind listeners a bit about the shape of your business right now and what sort of break or change you're feeling into that's bringing up those feelings for you?
Nic AntoinetteYeah. So at the beginning of 2025, when I started my grown up gap year, I put every part of my business on pause except for my newsletter. So no more hosting workshops or coworking groups or retreats or any of that other stuff, just writing a paid newsletter that used to be on Substack and is now on button down and kept doing that with some pauses into 2026. And that has what my business for the last six months has been a paid newsletter that I have been doing. And I am feeling like I need to take a like serious full break from that.
Nic AntoinetteAnd I have a lot of feelings about it, Amelia. I so, you know, as longer time listeners might remember, my dad died last August, and then on the six month anniversary of his death in February, my mom died also. And I didn't take a ton of time off during those periods, partially because I wanted somewhere else to put my brain, partially because I feel really supported by my readers. I've been writing online since 2007, not to say everyone has been there that long, but I feel a lot of true relational connectivity with especially some of the really long time commenters. And there's a lot of sweet stuff that happens in the comments on my newsletter, as you and I often talk about.
Nic AntoinetteAnd it just felt really good. You know, I gave myself the time off that I needed during each of those deaths. And then even a couple months ago, I thought that I was gonna take a full break. And what I actually wound up doing, again, what you said, let me let me get the ergonomic chair. Let me do this.
Nic AntoinetteI thought that I needed a full break. And what I decided to do instead was to write shorter kind of more personal blog style posts and more, like, threads that gave folks readers opportunities to chat with each other and with me in the comments, and all of that has been really lovely. And I feel like I just I have to put everything on pause for a while, and that's fine. Like, in the grand scheme of things, I'm one person with one newsletter, and if I pause it for some indeterminate amount of time, like, I'm I'm, like, not trying to make this a bigger deal than it needs to be. But and also, I feel a little bit of the, what's wrong with you that you can't even do this very simple job?
Nic AntoinetteThat it would have been the dream of my life, you know, in my teens, early twenties to think, you know, you have to write one newsletter a week and that is your job. So I'm acknowledging that those feelings are there. Right. And I think that they're, that could be like what you said about the narrative of not wanting to seem ungrateful. I can't imagine you and I are the only people that feel that way, right.
Nic AntoinetteIn whatever version of our online business, especially if it's something that's more of like an art practice passion project. So that is present for sure. There is definitely the fear of I actually think I need a pretty long break, to be honest. And part of that is there's a difference between going through a hard thing that when the hard thing is over, your time and energy and attention and focus has returned and you are still the same person. And I feel in a way that like almost sounds silly because of course, but on the other side of the death of both of my parent parents, I actually feel like a different person.
Nic AntoinetteI feel like there has been this real cataclysmic shift, this real tectonic shift that I don't even understand yet. But this experience of for as complicated as my relationship with my parents was, I never doubted that they loved me unconditionally, which I know isn't everyone's relationship with their caregivers. But having the only two people in the world who'd love me unconditionally be gone has really fucked me up. And I, like, don't know how to have a public presence at this time. And it's not just about that.
Nic AntoinetteI mean, also, especially now where I'm like, do I have cancer? You know, and I we'll see about that. But I'm like, I just have nothing to say. Or rather, I have a lot to say, and I don't wish to say it publicly at this time. Like, I'm feeling I remember years ago, I read a collection of essays.
Nic AntoinetteI gosh. I wish I remember the name of it. I wanna say the author was Mary Laura Philpott, but I read a collection of essays years ago, and one of them was talking about the author was talking about the need to be unwitnessed for a period of time in her life. And I am feeling the need to be publicly unwitnessed and privately extremely witnessed, that I want friends around me. I want community.
Nic AntoinetteI want these interspecies relationships. I wanna be out in my, like, local space doing things like just being Nick, not being like Nick Antoinette on the Internet. And I am afraid that I'm never gonna be able to have it back. I'm also afraid of what if I don't want it back? Because the truth right now is because my mom died so much sooner than anyone was expecting, I got some inheritance that I was never planning on getting.
Nic AntoinetteI was always planning on, you know, paying for her later in life. And so right now, I cannot work. But it's not enough money to not work forever. So like at some point there has to be income again. And so that's also, it's like navigating and I have talked to other, you know, business owners, like even for you with your sabbatical, it was okay.
Nic AntoinetteI have this money months that I can pay myself set aside in savings, but like those months come to an end at some point. And so it's like that question of how much is enough, how much is enough of a security net or lead time in order to make you feel like you can make a change. And I think this is sort of where the leap and the net will appear does come in. At some point you do have to leap. If you have built enough net, right?
Nic AntoinetteBecause it could be easy to tell yourself that there's never enough. You never have enough savings to take a month off the podcast. You never had, you know, fill in the, whatever your circumstances are here. And that I could easily tell myself, well, sure. I don't need to work for this many months, but at the end of those many months, and I don't have a plan for that, there like, I, I don't feel like functionally able to make a plan.
Nic AntoinetteSo there has to be an element of trust that I have enough money for now. And there has never been a time in my life where I have not figured it out. And it has felt very scary to get to that point. And I'm also talking about this now because something I learned the hard way early on in self employment. So I never want to get to the point where I resent my work.
Nic AntoinetteA because that's an unenjoyable experience for me. And B because I think that people on the receiving end can feel that. And so I'm saying this now, not because I'm like, and I quit my newsletter tomorrow, but where I'm like, okay. Now I need to start making a plan to wind things down for a while. So whether that's in a couple weeks that and then there's also logistic aspect of, like, button down doesn't currently have a way to just, like, one click pause paid subscriptions.
Nic AntoinetteSo there is a figuring it outside on the logistic like, what you said about moving from Substack to Ghost. Right? There is some back end stuff there, but it's important to me in line with this topic, how to know what kind of break you need or when to take it or how to implement it is if and and sometimes you need it instantly and there is no lead time and that just is what it is. But my best advice to myself or to anyone else is if this is a thing that you are going to do in whatever capacity, the sooner you can start preparing for it, preparing your clients for it, not having things feel so abrupt, I feel like is when possible the most relational and respectful way to do it. So for me, that's kind of what I'm thinking of when I think about, like, what's ahead in the month of July is how can I, with care and grace, communicate what needs to be communicated and do what it is that I need to do?
Amelia HrubyI'm definitely thinking here of the difference for both of us between that sort of like acute need for a break. Like, someone has died. I need a break right now. I'm gonna take this right now. Like, the difference between that and a bigger sense of, like, something has ended, and actually now I have to find a new way forward, or I have to communicate that this is done in what it was before.
Nic draws a parallel to her divorce — choosing to change before things get to rock bottom — and argues for giving yourself permission to stop before you're hanging on by a bloody fingernail, including her realization after the doctor's appointment that she was waiting for a 'good enough reason' to pause.
Amelia HrubyWho I was before is done, and therefore, this version of my business is also done. And I think that it's really beautiful and brave of you to admit that to yourself, to say it here in public. I wish that more of us could or would allow ourselves to be that deeply transformed by grief specifically and by so many portals we go through in life. And I think part of being self employed and part of being a creative person where your, like, life force is going into your business Is what happens when you are a totally different person? It, it means that you're probably gonna need a totally different business.
Nic AntoinetteAnd I've done that many times. And so if I'm taking comfort in anything, it is that like I have had entire businesses, business identities, things that don't exist anymore. And so sometimes, yeah, it is trusting. Okay. You've done this before.
Nic AntoinetteYou can do it again.
Amelia HrubyHello, my lovely listener. Amelia here interrupting this conversation because if you're enjoying this episode,
Amelia Hrubythe one you're listening to right now, I think you would really love the Off the Grid Clubhouse.
Amelia HrubyThe Clubhouse is a paid podcast, newsletter, and asynchronous community space for friends and fans of
Amelia HrubyOff the Grid. It's where I share bonus episodes about my hot takes, personal feelings, deepest, darkest, brightest, lightest ideas about online business. And all of the posts in the clubhouse have community comment threads where you can ask me questions, share your experiences, and chat with other off the grid listeners. It only costs $5 per month or $50 per year to join the fun, and I truly hope that you will head to the show notes and check it out. For now, let's dive back into this conversation.
Nic AntoinetteThis might seem like a strange tangent, but I will bring it back. When my friend and former spouse, Paul, when we were going through the process of deciding whether or not to get divorced, the conversation that we had that was essentially the the final conversation when we decided, yes, we were gonna progress towards getting a divorce and, you know, shifting more to friendship, was we were talking about how the cultural and familial scripts that we had both sort of grown up with or been given for why you get divorced is you get divorced if you're at absolute rock bottom and you hate each other so much, and you're so miserable and anything other than that means either you didn't try hard enough or you didn't wait long enough, you know? And we were both sort of like, but why? If the allowable reason to get divorced is that you have to be miserable and hate each other, we'll get there eventually. But why not do it now where there's still so much here that we can transfer into a different kind of relationship?
Nic AntoinetteAnd that's which isn't to say that that was easy, but that is what we chose and ultimately was, you know, successful in that regard. And I've been thinking about that in the business context of this idea of rock bottom, That maybe you don't have to wait until you're sick or miserable or can't sleep or crying all the time or hate your job so much, or you like rage quit at a, you know, giving ourselves permission to make a change before it's so dire. Like I say all of this to say, even with the grief of it all, with everything, I'm actually doing pretty well. I'd say on an I mean, I guess you you can weigh in on this on an interpersonal level, but I have had to take breaks before from a period of like, wow, I'm in a super depressive episode and like, can't really do my work. This doesn't feel like that.
Nic AntoinetteAnd it almost makes it more clear that I feel well resourced. I feel like I have a lot of joy in my life. I feel like I'm really committed to various pursuits, you know, personal and service oriented and otherwise that my life feels really full. I feel like my mental health is pretty stable. The grief waves come because the grief waves come.
Nic AntoinetteThat's just normal, but all of that is true and I still need to step away from this thing. Right? And that's where it can get a little bit dicey for me that I'm like, well, it's not that bad. You're fine. And I think that can be weaponized in a way of, and so, I mean, I thought about this a lot in getting sober for me.
Nic AntoinetteLike I didn't have what some would describe as a rock bottom experience with alcohol. Thank God. Like I, who knows had I not gotten sober when I did, maybe I would have, maybe I wouldn't be here. You know, it's like, I just think there's something sometimes maybe we do need whatever the rock bottom moment is, but sometimes we don't. And what if it's like giving yourself permission to change, even if it's not like, I don't want to only change when it's gotten to the point where I'm like hanging onto something by one bloody fingernail, like it's, you know, like what, just let go.
Amelia HrubyYeah. You know? I feel like what you're saying is some version of, like, you wanna take the break before the break takes you.
Nic AntoinetteCorrect.
Amelia HrubyAnd I can definitely relate to that. I've been in both experiences. I have taken breaks from a place of self knowing and trust and agency, and I have taken a break from the place of such, like, defeat and exhaustion and no other option than to stop. And they feel very different. Those types of breaks, like, especially just the sort of the emotional tenor of them, the energy you go into them with, what feels possible from the place of the break is very different depending on how much agency you're carrying into it, how much choice you're bringing in with you.
Amelia and Nic map out three distinct types of stopping — a time-limited break, an indefinite pause with expected return, and a full ending — and how each requires different communication and logistics depending on your business model.
Nic AntoinetteYeah. And and I also think there's an element of not taking on other people's reactions to your decision. You know, in this context, what do I owe to my readers for me? Right? That I'm like, what feels in integrity for me will be to share that this is where I'm at.
Nic AntoinetteOnce I've decided on a timeline to share that, to be clear about the logistics of when people are gonna stop getting charged. Right? Like that like being transparent, not abrupt, giving a good lead time, and that's it. You know? If people are disappointed, I trust that they can manage that on their own, you know?
Nic AntoinetteAnd and also, like, that's nice. If people are disappointed, it's because they will miss me. You know? And I to be honest with you, I don't see any scenario in which, like money aside where I don't like come back to doing this. Like I, in some form, because it feels like more like more than a business.
Nic AntoinetteI mean, this is something else that I've been struggling with is that I don't feel like I identify as a business owner anymore after, you know, fifteen years of doing that. And I've never really had the experience of, like, just making art or just, like, what does a public sharing practice look like if it's not attached to a larger business? And I think I'm I I tried that in the last year and a half, but it still sort of had the flavor of the I don't know. I think there's there is a different iteration of this in the future that could exist for me, and I just have to trust that I will know that when it comes.
Amelia HrubyOh, I think that latter point is so interesting because I definitely had a public sharing practice long before I had a business. And I think that shows in the way that I started out on Instagram, which is a sharing space more than it was a business space. And so, like, I built all of that up, and I spent years with, like, a such a lightly monetized version of this that it wasn't really a business. And and sometimes I do crave. I have a desire to go back to, like, just sharing without selling, without all the layers of the business on it that's quite different.
Amelia HrubySomething I was thinking about though before you went that direction was the difference between taking a break and ending something, because that is also where that piece of, like, caring about other people's perceptions comes in. Yes. I think they're the things we owe to our clients and customers, whether it's a break or an ending, like communication, transparency, clear direction of what's gonna happen. But I'm reflecting here on the difference between when I took a three week break from my business in the summer of twenty twenty two versus now when I'm winding things down. Because when I took that break in the summer, you know, four years ago, I had to make sure my clients were very well taken care of while I was gone.
Amelia HrubyBecause I didn't want any of them to stop working with me on the other side. Right? And that break was actually a big fulcrum point for me because the amount of work it took to get everybody prepped for the break ended up exhausting me so much that the break was kind of a wash. I wanted to be rejuvenated, and by the end of the break, I had just barely recovered from the exhaustion of the work it took to get to the break. And that really became a moment of me learning that podcast production is not a long term sustainable thing for me.
Amelia HrubyIf I had to pinpoint when the seed of this business ending started, it was in the experience of trying to take that break just like a year and a half in, I think. I would yeah. It would have been just over maybe it was summer of twenty twenty three. Maybe it was two years into the business, but I was at that point, I realized, like, like, oh, taking a break with this many people's schedules on the line is really, really hard. And for me, like, I I think a lot about the difference between, okay, I'm taking a three week break, but I'm trying to protect these relationships for the other side of the break so they stay ongoing and they keep working with me, versus deciding to really slow down and sunset the business.
Amelia HrubyAnd last fall, when I communicated to clients that I wasn't gonna be working for the first six months of this year, I was trying to communicate clearly. I was trying to give them some runway, but I wasn't trying to ensure they were gonna keep working with me on the other side. I was actually trying to tell them, you need to find somebody else. And that's really different in those scenarios. This is where
Nic AntoinetteI think about the difference in our business models. Right? The one to one client relationship, both in terms of what percentage of your income comes from each person versus what percentage of your income comes from readers who are paying $5 a month for a newsletter. Right? And the thing of, like, if you are providing a service for someone that they need in their art or business, like, you know, what you were doing with softer sounds, and you go away, they need that service filled by someone else.
Nic AntoinetteEither they need to start doing it themselves or they need to hire someone else. If I stop writing my newsletter, there's no one else that needs to fill that space. Right? And so there's also a difference and that's, there's, there's just like a different tending that has to happen there. And because I would be fully shocked if I never had a public writing practice again.
Nic AntoinetteI, I mean, I would just be that, that, that would become, I would be unknowable to myself and I'm, I am open to meeting that person, I guess. But like, I just sometimes what has to happen for me is I have to give myself permission to take the full break, and then things whoosh in really quickly after that. Like, this might be the kind of thing that two months from now, I'm like, oh my God, I have so much to say. Right? And so I think for me, it's like being honest about what's true.
Nic AntoinetteAnd part of what's true is that I actually don't know the timeline because I don't think I can know it until it's like, I thought the answer was shrinking things down, only doing this thing once a week. And actually, what I have to do is completely remove the tether to being a public person. That it wouldn't matter if it was five minutes a week at this point, like, that needs to be gone. And how long that needs to be gone for will become apparent to me once it is gone, but I can't pre live that reality. Right?
Nic AntoinetteBut because I do envision wanting to come back to this in some way, I do hope, you know, like this isn't a, and then I'm deleting the newsletter. Right? Like, assuming I can figure out how I I guess I'd have to do that if I couldn't figure out how to pause the payments. Right? I'll talk to the folks at Button Down about that.
Nic AntoinetteBut it's more, it is on pause indefinitely. And when I am ready to come back, you know, like, we it the the, like, so but something that's so funny about all of this is it was, like, a week ago that I got, like, fully clear on the next book that I wanna write, which I think is so funny. Right? That it's not that I don't want to write or that I want don't want to make things. I'm actually excited to be like, Hey, do you want to have weekly writing dates with me?
Nic AntoinetteOr it's I, it needs to be unwitnessed. Like that. And I have the title of the book. I have the tagline of the book. The shape of it is mapped out in my head.
Nic AntoinetteLike it's, it's not like there is no work to be made. It just needs to exist differently right now. And if, and when I do write that book, I would love to communicate to these existing readers, Right. That the book is so it's like, what do you do with that in the meantime? I don't know, but.
Amelia HrubyYeah. I like all this sort of nuance we're unpacking and uncovering. There is like the short term time delineated break. There is the, like, indefinite break with the expectation of eventual return, and then there's, like, the ending. This is not coming back as it is.
Amelia HrubyAnd in business, each of those types of breaks requires different actions and communications with the people. And it depends a lot, also, I really liked your point on, like, what type of business you have. Is this something where you are doing ongoing service provider work for people and they will have to find a replacement? Or is this something where it's like people just like to read your work and they'll just kinda hang out and wait for you to come back or not, and that's not actually a huge thing for either of you. And I think those are all really nice sort of considerations to take into a break, at least on the logistical side of it.
Amelia HrubyAnd then we've also started to unpack just, like, all of the feelings that arise. And I think something that's coming through for me the more we talk about this too is just, like, something that you and I have both been doing over the past, like, six to nine months that obviously has just stopped working for us is we just, as you've said, we keep trying to shrink the amount of work. We just keep thinking, like, okay. The what of the work must be the problem. So if I can just right size it, it will be enough.
Both hosts trace how they kept halving their workloads — Nic from long essays to short posts to community threads, Amelia from 20 clients to 8 to none — until the minimum amount was still too much, and what that pattern reveals.
Amelia HrubyRight? So for you, it was like, okay. Well, you know, just one essay a week. And then, well, one essay a week with some breaks. And then, like, well, maybe it's not an essay.
Amelia HrubyMaybe it's just more community props. Maybe it's just conversations. And, like, it kept getting smaller and smaller. You're like, what if instead of four hours a week, it takes me two hours a week and then one hour a week, and now it's, like, fifteen minutes a week, but that is still too much. That's been your version.
Amelia HrubyMy version was like, okay. Instead of having 20 clients, I'm gonna have 10 clients. And it was like, what if I just have eight clients? It was like, what if I just keep my longest term and best friend clients? And it was like, what if I just keep my best friend clients?
Amelia HrubyAnd then at a certain point, I was like, I don't want any clients. Actually, I I just have to have no clients. And for you, doing less didn't mean making less money. For me, every time I release clients, it's, like, less income. Like, it it there's a different financial stake in the less like, the half sizing of everything each time.
Amelia HrubyI wanted to lay that out because I think it can create the sort of self judgment and shame that you're naming that's like, I used to do this much, and now I can't even do this tiny amount.
Nic AntoinetteYeah. I mean and that's I mean, I'm definitely making less money than I was when I had a more robust business, for sure, and I'm making less newsletter income than when I had a, like, public funnel of things that brought new people to the newsletter. So there definitely have been, you know, those types of consequences to to this. I think the other thing that I haven't, like, said specifically that is definitely relevant for me, maybe relevant for others, is because of the nature of the fact that the writing that I do is personal. Even, like, the story I tell myself of it's one day a week of work or whatever it is.
Nic AntoinetteI'm usually writing over multiple days. I don't just sit down and write the whole thing at once. Right? There's editing. There's all of that, But I'm thinking about it all of the time.
Nic AntoinetteLike, there's very much a, like, what am I gonna write about next week? Is it this topic or this topic? How am I and there I would say the majority of my public writing life, that has felt very pleasurable. Because writing is a lot of how I understand myself and the world. And I have almost this sense of, like, the pressure release valve of, like, and that is exactly how I wanted to say what I mean.
Nic AntoinetteYou know, there's, like, something really satisfying in the ideation process there. And that was one of the main indications that I need to take a break is that that is causing stress and not joy. I would say for a couple of weeks now, I've been like, oh, fuck. What am I gonna write about this week? And not to say that I then can't get to a place where I'm like, okay.
Nic AntoinetteThis actually feels good and then create the right container and make the nice beverage and sit down to write, and it always does feel good at the end of it. Like, there hasn't been a time yet where I'm like, I absolutely hate every second of this. I don't wanna be doing that because my I mean, my tolerance for self coercion is so low that I am pretty good at stopping something before I resent it because I'm just, like, not willing to go there, honestly. And so I do think there is the intangible nature of something that sure, maybe you have one client a week, but how much time are you thinking about that client? You know?
Nic AntoinetteAnd then and then it's sort of like the ergonomic chair of it all is, okay, is the problem solving thing if you need that client financially, let's say, or for whatever reason, what you actually then need to do is figure out how to have it feel like a job that you clock in clock out. Right? Like I think I used to work at Williams Sonoma when I was in my twenties. And I think all the time about the act of like, you go into the break room, you put on the green apron, you tie the apron, you have the name tag, you go at the end of the shift, the apron comes off. And it's not that I never thought about anything that happened at work afterwards, or like ever talked to a coworker, but I mean, it was a real clock in, clock out experience that I have never had with self employment.
Nic AntoinetteAnd I think that it is possible to get there. There are different skills that we have to develop. Right? So it's like, if someone can't take the full break that they need, what are the skills on a sort of like nervous system soothing or a like time compartmentalization or like various things? And because it can't be speaking to myself, try nothing, all out of ideas.
Nic AntoinetteBut I love that. I love right. That, like, you know, because it can't just be, well, this has to be the way it is. So I'm just gonna have carpal tunnel and migraines. Like, no.
Nic AntoinetteRight? So I think that's when we sort of have to that's a little bit of the, like, tough love at self of, like, great, Nick. It is it is true that in this phase, you can't quit your job, let's say. Right? What has to be true in order for you to keep showing up at this job in integrity.
Nic AntoinetteAnd so like that sort of like disengaging from the thing mentally, like that requires different things. And I'm sure there is more that I could have done to be able to not have it be a thing where it's like low key in my mind, but I the way the reason that I'm saying this to you now about the, like, needing to take the break from the work. And this is the first time that we've really talked about this to this degree, because in the last twenty four hours, the most honest thing that I can say is when I walked out of that doctor's appointment and was like, potentially cancer, potentially not cancer. One of the first things I thought was, okay, I can really take a break from the newsletter. This is a good enough reason.
Nic AntoinetteAnd I was like, okay. And that brought up
Amelia Hrubythe rock bottom that where it's,
Nic Antoinetteit's, it's almost like a million. I didn't realize that that's how I was feeling. It was like the unknown became known to me that I was like, Kay, you know, that I'm like, Anne, babe, you are now taking a break because like, that's not cute. I don't feel like proud of that. I'll tell you.
Amelia HrubyNo, but this is so real. Okay. This is the thing that people don't say out loud. Like in the deepest parts of my burnout, when I fantasize about something horrific happening to me, so I can actually stop working, that's when I know I'm like really severely fucked and I have to change something. Like, and I've gotten there many, many times in my life.
Amelia HrubyBut when I'm like really in that moment of like, oh, what if this horrible thing happened in my life that would be the excuse? I can take a break. Being able to, like, pause there and be, like, this is enlightening. I should and I and so I just appreciate you sharing that, because I've definitely been there in fantasy mode, and you were able to, like, recognize it happened, like, in real time and be, like, okay. Yeah.
Amelia HrubyThat means this needs to happen. I don't need that reason to stop writing my like fully non obligatory newsletter. Correct.
Nic AntoinetteAnd I'm not willing to phone it in with this type of work. I've definitely been willing to phone it in at other jobs in the past, like, but there's something that feels, and I don't say this lightly, but there's something that feels sacred to me about the writer reader relationship. And maybe that's me having too much of like a spiritual aspect to it, but that is always how it feels to me. It feels extremely relational. I genuinely care about my readers and I do not take it for granted that in a world that is so saturated with so many different types of content that people are choosing to get my words in their inbox and often, like, click the link to then log into their account, to leave a comment.
Nic AntoinetteLike, that is meaningful. That is so special to me. And I am not going to phone it in. I will get a different job. That's how I feel.
Nic AntoinetteAnd there have been people in my life, whether it's like business coaches or other things or whatever that it's like, well, couldn't you just do less in this way? And I'm like, this is the one area of my job. Like, I am not willing. I am not willing to not show up in integrity in this way. And so that means I have to stop.
Nic explains why she refuses to send writing she feels resentful of, describing the writer-reader relationship as something that feels sacred to her, and why that standard means she has to stop rather than coast.
Nic AntoinetteAnd that was the thing yesterday when I was like, okay, people will understand that I was like, babe. Okay. You know, like that's,
Amelia Hrubyyou're like, we can't need cancer to take a break actually.
Nic AntoinetteAnd the wildest thing, Amelia, is I don't believe that because everything that I just said about the rock bottom is also true. And so the fact that like that spark of a thought was even in my brain, I was like, oh, you, you got got by some of these narratives that are against your own actual values. And I don't have to make that mean anything wrong about me. That happens to all of us. Right.
Nic AntoinetteBut like this stuff is so deeply internalized or can be so deeply internalized of, like, who deserves a break or what qualifies for it that it's like even me with, like, literally decades of this sort of anti capitalist, like, anti productivity culture, like still is like, This is a reason to take
Amelia Hrubya break. Like, come on. You know? Sometimes it takes these like real moments of clarity. It takes the like subconscious thought, like shooting up to be like, oh, that's what's really going on here.
Amelia HrubyLike as self reflective as we are, we are still not transparent to ourselves sometimes. That's just part of being a human.
Nic AntoinetteI also think part of the process of implementing the how with all of this stuff is reminding yourself, like I said, for me, I have been through huge business related pivots in the past. You know, going from like one industry to another one diff you know, and it's like for you, sun setting softer sounds. Doesn't erase your ten plus years of expertise and experience editing audio. So if at some point in the future you want or need to take on a client in that way, like no one's gonna not allow you to do that. Right.
Nic AntoinetteAnd obviously certain types of businesses maybe have bigger stakes if it's like a brick and mortar thing. And you're deciding whether or not to let go of a lease or whatever. But I think sometimes we forget that making a change in how we operate things or in what is publicly visible about us, doesn't remove all of the experience that we have. And there's no way that you're not gonna like download your softer sounds mailing list. Like you could email those people and not to say it's, it's just you snap your fingers and you have a full blown business again, there would be a building back period.
Nic AntoinetteAnd also you could do that. Right. And so I think there's an element too, of being less fear based about the actual stakes. And the longer the break is the harder it is to come back. Sure.
Nic AntoinetteBut I have to trust that I did it once and I can do it again.
Amelia HrubyExactly. Yeah. Especially with a business, it's like, if you built this before, why don't you think you could build another version of this in the future? Right? Like, I have all of the evidence and that I can root my self trust in that.
Amelia HrubyAnd this also goes to, like, as much as I am, like, a fiery, Aries, fast mover, quick decision maker, I actually think my tolerance for risk with my income is very low.
Nic AntoinetteI would agree with that about you.
Amelia HrubyYes. There is a reason I have two businesses right now. Right? Like, I am not actually letting go of softer sounds. I mean, I'll run the numbers next month for people in the clubhouse, but, like, I was not willing to let go of softer sounds until I didn't need it financially anymore.
Amelia HrubyI currently have a business bank account with an entire year of all of my salary and expenses saved in it. Like, my risk tolerance is pretty low. I know this about myself. I've told myself it was wrong for a while. And then actually I was just like, this is fine.
Amelia HrubyLike, this is what I need to make this change.
Nic AntoinetteAnd you can't make yourself not need it. And I would say kind of what I was saying before about, like, what I need is to not ever phone it in with my writing and with my readers. Like there are other people who maybe don't feel that way and would probably tell me my bar is too high with that. It doesn't matter. What I need is to never send out writing that I feel resentful of.
Nic reflects on how she's been obsessively second-guessing her writing — something she doesn't normally do — as a sign that she's changed in ways she doesn't yet understand, and connects this to the broader question of when we get space to be unwitnessed.
Nic AntoinetteI am unwilling to compromise the purity of that relationship as it sits in my own heart. And I could tell myself that that's stupid or unnecessary or nobody's going to know, or, but I know, you know? And so I think there's that aspect of like, what needs to be true for you in order to, you know, do what it is that you wanna do next. And if what you needed was to build up off the grid to the point where it basically was paying your softer sound salary, great, then that is the price of admission. And the price of admission of that is you had to do softer sounds longer than you wanted to.
Nic AntoinetteYou had to frame it as a sabbatical first, not just for other people, but I think for yourself. I will tell you as your friend, when we had that conversation where you were like, I'm taking a sabbatical in the back of my head, I was like, Amelia's never coming back to this business. And that was just my hot take. I could have easily been wrong. And I'm sure there's been, you've told me there's plenty of times where I say a thing and you're like, okay, well, yeah, like this, that's cute.
Nic AntoinetteYou know, sometimes other people have like a clarity about us that we, but you're not ready to do it yet, you know? And that's beautiful. Give yourself what it is that you need. And if what you need is a longer timeline or a certain amount of savings, but I have experienced even because I also am not willing to take those kind of risks with my financial well-being. With my income, yes.
Nic AntoinetteBut that's because right now I have savings. Right? That's was unexpected. But it's like something does change for me psychologically when I have decided to end something, and I am then working toward that. Like periods of time where I have been like, this is unsustainable.
Nic AntoinetteI need to make a change, but I need X amount of months of money in the bank account. I then it's almost like I no longer feel the stress and stress and pressure of making the decision. I'm like, okay, now I'm on the path. And there can be something freeing about starting the, like putting the plan in place, even if the thing is six months or a year away, because it changes the way that you view it. You don't feel trapped anymore.
Amelia HrubyYeah. I think that's incredibly true. And I think really this whole episode has a lot of us just like grappling with that. Like the reason we're taking breaks is because something has changed and we have changed. And a break is one way that we are trying to sort of catch up.
Amelia HrubyWe're trying to let our business or our writing or our online image catch up with whoever we are now as we figure that out.
Nic AntoinetteAnd sometimes the change that has happened to self is evident really quickly, and you can move forward sort of with that new thing. And as someone who's a very fast processor and makes a lot of quick shifts and pivots internally, I think that's what's been throwing me off about this is this actually feels like the first time I don't wanna say that I don't know who I am because that sounds I don't know, maybe more dramatic that I mean it, but I feel really unmoored. And that's not a problem if I'm not trying to write like first person essays in the present moment. I feel like everything I write I'm second guessing myself. Is that really true?
Nic AntoinetteIs that really how I feel? Do people want to hear? And that is not something I usually do. So I think there can also be these sort of warning signs, you know, whether it's, you know, you gave some pretty clear physical examples. Right?
Nic AntoinetteCarpal tunnel, other things like the there can be feedback from the body. But also, is there something in the work process that's changed? I actually didn't I don't know that I really realized this until I'm saying it out loud right now, but, yeah, I have been so self doubting in my writing. And that doesn't it's not from a place that all of a sudden I'm a bad writer now. That's not what I believe, but I'm feeling very tender about being witnessed, and I'm feeling very tender about feedback.
Nic AntoinetteAnd that has also made the only one time a week feel really outsized. Because it's not like sit down, write, edit, get the thing out. It's sit down, write, edit, obsess about it for a really long time. And so there's something going on for me that I'm like, what you said about, yes, sometimes we have changed in ways that aren't even fully known to ourselves. And one of the downsides of the era of social media, online public business, in a personal branding sense, being a person online, is that when do we get the space to have these sometimes like necessarily large swaths of time to be not publicly witnessed?
Nic AntoinetteI just don't think everything needs to be shared in real time.
Amelia HrubyYeah, I agree. And even if we can recognize that in ourselves, create the emotional space, even the time space, like how do we also have the financial resourcing to do that? That becomes like, when this is a business, that's the question.
Nic AntoinetteAnd then the last thing I will say is, when you do have the financial resourcing to do it, can you give yourself permission to do it? And that's, I feel like where the anti capitalist, like, praxis of it all comes in, where I'm like, I am in the exact situation that if literally anyone was in this situation of they had enough financial resourcing at the moment to in a stress free way, step away from a thing that is currently not working, like do it. And it's so funny when we think the rules don't apply to us. Yeah. Cause they don't.
Both hosts acknowledge the gap between what they tell others and what they allow themselves, with Amelia announcing she's publicly committing to no Zoom in July so people will hold her accountable.
Nic AntoinetteSo practice, practice what you preach, I guess, to me. Yeah. I
Amelia Hrubymean, this is why I'm all over the internet being like friends. I am not Zooming in July. It's because if I show up on Zoom, I want to be berated. Someone needs to be like, Amelia, what are you doing here? You said you wouldn't be here.
Nic AntoinetteRight. I will be changing your Zoom password. You cannot be logging in.
Amelia HrubyYeah. Like, I have to actually live it out, you know? Like, I haven't taken a month off of Zoom since long before I started my business. I mean, I used to work an online remote job where I had to log on every day. So, yeah, it's like the rules we write, what we allow for other people versus what we allow for ourselves.
Amelia HrubyAnd, yeah, I just love how we've wrapped all of this into a conversation around breaks. And, you know, we haven't even specifically talked about the fact that it's summer coming up, and so many people take a break in the summer. And, also, I think that, like, that is a piece of this too. Right? Like, it's way more easeful for me to take a break from Zoom in July than it would be in, like, October.
Amelia HrubyThat would be have a very different consequence if I opted out, you know, in March. And so there's also a seasonal quality to this. There's so much to say about breaks. I love all of it.
Nic AntoinetteGreat. We did it. We solved the breaks. We covered it.
Amelia HrubyOkay. I feel like when we logged on, I thought we were gonna talk about our upcoming book projects and the things that we're actually writing when we go offline this summer. But instead, I think we're gonna cliffhanger this. I think I'm just gonna say, friends, Nick and I are both working on new books. And if you want more information
Nic AntoinetteRight. Join my email list where there will be no emails.
Amelia HrubyAlso, tune back in in probably August or September when we return, maybe with some pages written, maybe with some ideas more fully formed. Who knows? But, yeah, we're just gonna cliffhanger that announcement. These things are coming. We're excited about them.
Amelia HrubyAnd, you
Nic Antoinetteknow, I think, Nick, I
Amelia Hrubyjust wanna ask one final question for both of us as we log off. Like, what is one non work offline thing that you're looking forward to this summer when you're on your newsletter break?
Nic AntoinetteThere is a lake ten minutes from my house where I really like to go. I think in my mind that I'm supposed to enjoy the beach, but I actually the ocean is very scary to me. It's a far enough drive away. The parking is very expensive. I've gone there.
Nic AntoinetteI feel like I have to stay there for the whole day. It's a whole thing. Whereas this is so close to home, and it's lovely. And so I am very excited to put my body in the lake as many times as is weather appropriate for me this summer. That is one of many things that I am excited about, but I wish to be in the water.
Amelia HrubyYeah. I mean, people who know me know that my favorite summer activity is to be in my tiny backyard pool and just float there. And since you picked water as your one non work offline thing, I will not pick the pool as mine. I am looking forward to reading the Sarah j Moss Crescent City books, which I have never read. I have owned them since they came out, and I have not read them.
Amelia HrubySo I am going to step back into romantic land, which I have not been in for a minute. I've kind of been paused. I've been reading a lot more other stuff, but that is my plan. By the next time you people hear from me, not in the clubhouse, but back on this main feed, I will have read the Crescent City books in preparation for, I guess, whatever new Sarah J Maas stuff we're getting in the fall.
Nic AntoinetteMy hot take is that the first book is so good. I loved the first book of the series. Maybe the last, like fifth of it. I think I was like sobbing the whole time, which is like not my vibe as you know. And I don't know that I will read any more of the series.
Nic AntoinetteLike the, the ones after that, they were, I'd say fine at best personally. So I loved the first one. And then after that, I was sort of like, so I'll be curious to see what you think.
Amelia HrubyMe too. I read Throne of Glass all the way through. Same. I read Avatar all the way through.
Nic AntoinetteLove the throne of Glass is my favorite of her book,
Amelia Hrubyof her series. I would agree. I think it's the strongest. I liked the characters the most. And for some reason I just have not read any of these three Crescent City books, but I'm gonna do them.
Amelia HrubyFor other folks listening, if you have romantic book recs for me, I guess you can let me know, but also don't because the Crescent City books are all like, 800 pages long. I have, like, 2,000 pages of reading to do now, so I'm gonna go
Amelia and Nic tease that they're both working on new books, share their non-work summer plans — lake swimming and reading the Crescent City series — and say goodbye until the podcast returns in the fall.
Nic Antoinettedo that. So anyway Amazing.
Amelia HrubyNick, thank you as always for joining me. Listeners, thank you for tuning in. I hope all of you are exploring your own summer breaks in any way that they are taking you or you are taking them. And for now, we're gonna sign off for the next few months. So until next time, you can find me off the grid in the pool and reading Sarah J.
Amelia HrubyMoss. Bye. I kinda hate social media. Teeds on my brain like a bacteria. If you're in my Wikipedia, it'll say, I kinda hate social media.
Amelia HrubyPost a picture of myself. Sacrifices my mental health. Use your product. Time to this?
Nic AntoinetteOkay.
Amelia HrubyThat was an abridged version of Social Media by Surfer Boy and Rectangle. To hear the entire song, find Surfer Boy on Spotify or head to the link in the show notes. Thanks so much to them for sharing the song with us, as well as to Melissa Caitlin Carter, who sings our theme song that you hear at the start of every show. I'm your host, Emilia Ruby, and if you enjoyed this episode, I hope you will download the free Leading Social Media Toolkit at offthegrid.funtoolkit. Until next time, I will see you Off the Grid.
Amelia HrubyHi again, Amelia here. Remember me? You just heard my voice and now I'm back. But this time, it's with a very special gift as thanks to you for staying tuned in and being one of our very loyal listeners and fans. Today, I wanna share a few creative resources with you.