Episode 0Dec 25, 2025· 45:26
Why Podcast Guesting Beats Every Other Networking Strategy
About this episode
Josh Elledge has been featured in media 3,000 times and appeared on nearly 500 podcasts—and he says there's no better way to build relationships with decision-makers than podcasting. Forget cold emails and LinkedIn DMs; Josh reveals his "three-week warm-up" method that converts 30-60% of podcast hosts into interview opportunities. He explains why most podcast guesting agencies are doing it wrong, how to identify…
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Full transcript
00:02
Welcome to the Bloggy Friends Show. What's up,
00:25
my Bloggy friends? Famous Ashley Grant here,
00:26
and I just want to welcome you to the Bloggy
00:28
Friends Show. We're so excited to have you join
00:30
us on this journey of sharing our knowledge and
00:32
experiences with you. Whether you're a blogger,
00:35
a content creator, or just someone who's interested
00:37
in learning more about the digital world, we've
00:39
got something for you. So grab your notebook
00:41
and a pen to take some notes, or just sit back
00:43
and take in all the amazing information and ideas
00:45
we're about to share with you. Let's get into
00:47
it. I'm excited to have you here. So let's just
00:50
kind of dive right in. We're talking about how
00:53
bloggers cannot just be bloggers anymore. And
00:55
so the Reader's Digest version is they got to
00:57
be on podcasts so that they can promote their
00:59
blogs. You are the genius that comes up with
01:01
all the media stuff. So tell me all you have
01:04
to share. Gosh, well, where do we begin? Let's
01:07
open up the encyclopedia. Oh, man, when you do
01:12
something for so long, you develop a lot of...
01:16
and some of it useless knowledge, some of it
01:19
fun facts and stuff. I'm with Ashley. Thank you,
01:21
first of all, for having me. By way of quick
01:24
introduction, well, hello, friend who's listening
01:27
to our conversation right now. I'm Josh Elledge.
01:29
And so I've been in the media about 3 ,000 times.
01:33
I've done probably close to 3 ,000 podcasts on
01:36
top of that. As a host, I've been a guest on
01:39
maybe close to 500 shows. We have launched over
01:43
300 podcasts through. my company, upmyinfluence
01:48
.com. And so if you want to go spy on me, the
01:51
website is upmyinfluence .com, or you could just
01:54
Google my name too, and you'll see all the stuff
01:56
I've been doing over the years. And as a consultant,
02:00
both as a media consultant and over the past
02:03
six years in particular, my primary work is that
02:06
of a fractional chief revenue officer. So I work
02:10
with higher level coaches, consultants. B2B service
02:14
providers, agency owners primarily. And all I
02:18
simply do is I drive sales and revenue. And we
02:22
do that through a very relationship oriented
02:26
approach. So if... my friend who's listening
02:30
right now, if you do what's called account -based
02:32
sales, meaning you're going to have conversations
02:35
before somebody buys something, right? It's not
02:39
an automated sales and marketing process, right?
02:41
So coaches and consultants, I mean, you know
02:44
for sure, like you're going to have probably
02:46
a series of conversations before somebody agrees
02:50
to sign a contract and give you $30 ,000, $40
02:53
,000, $80 ,000 for your coaching package. And
02:57
we have clients that... you know, at a minimum,
02:59
you know, I say minimum, it has to be five figures,
03:01
but it goes all the way up to multi -seven figures.
03:03
So generally we're working with people that have
03:05
some pretty decent domain expertise. And collectively
03:08
we have generated that we can track a minimum.
03:12
We have no idea what the upside is, but it's
03:15
at least about $40 million in sales that we've
03:18
helped create. So Ashley, before we talk about
03:21
PodVerified and all that, how I do that is that
03:25
With the podcast that we create, if you're familiar
03:28
with, and by the way, Ashley, have you read,
03:30
or if you're familiar with The Go -Giver by Bob
03:32
Berg? Yes, you actually introduced me to that
03:35
last time we chatted. Oh, yeah, yeah. So listen,
03:38
if you get nothing else from this conversation
03:42
to my friend that's listening to our conversation
03:44
right now, go read The Go -Giver. This is one
03:46
of the follow -up books I'm holding for video,
03:48
but it's Go -Givers Sell More. But Bob Bird teaches
03:51
what I think, for those of us who are in account
03:53
-based sales, probably the best strategy that
03:56
we can do. And that is that if you take all of
04:01
that... nonsense sales and marketing advice that
04:03
are sold by the hustle bros and the, you know,
04:06
the bro -y energy that's out there and, you know,
04:08
you got to try to, you know, do all this fake
04:11
scarcity and all this other nonsense. Listen,
04:13
you're not fooling anybody. Like, well, I should
04:16
say... You could probably fool newer people.
04:20
Like if you sell to newer entrepreneurs, that
04:23
stuff might work on them. But if you sell to
04:27
sophisticated leaders who have been in business
04:29
for any length of time, that stuff is not going
04:31
to work on them. They've seen it all. They've
04:34
been around. And so the best thing that you can
04:36
do, and this is what Bob Berg would advocate,
04:40
is that you lead with noble intent. And what
04:46
I mean by that is you need to change your energy.
04:50
If you're showing up to a conversation with someone
04:53
and you're all about what you want and what you
04:56
can get, I don't care how great of a poker face
04:59
you think you have. We know. We can tell. And
05:03
some of us tend to be pretty highly empathic.
05:05
Some of us are pretty savvy, right? We know.
05:08
We can tell. Like, you cannot fake it, right?
05:11
So this goes for content creators, okay? Your
05:15
content creators know what you want as well based
05:18
upon your tone, your language, you know, kind
05:21
of your urgency, like what you do. Like, you're
05:23
not fooling anybody. Now, again, I can go back
05:26
into my background as a journalist, and I learned
05:28
from Adrian Kronauer, who was... featured his
05:31
story was portrayed by robin williams in the
05:33
movie good morning vietnam we talked about that
05:35
another time but his whole thing is again you
05:37
got to be honest with people and you have to
05:40
be honest with audiences at all time okay so
05:43
Back to the go -giver, okay? Noble intent means
05:47
that you're always there to do good for somebody
05:50
else. You're there to just be a friend. You're
05:53
not there to desperately try to get your own
05:56
sales. That's new behavior. That's newbie behavior,
05:59
okay? And again, you go to any mixer and generally
06:02
the leaders can tell who the newbies are based
06:04
upon kind of how they come across in their desperation,
06:07
that sort of thing. Okay, so noble intent, you're
06:10
there to do good things for good people. The
06:12
second part of that is you're always leading
06:14
in generosity. So if there is something that
06:18
you are hoping for, like you're in business,
06:21
right? You have something that you need to do
06:23
in order for you to keep doing what you're doing.
06:26
Like you got to make the wheels of economics
06:28
continue to turn. So you would lead in generosity
06:32
because generally leaders and A -listers and
06:38
decision makers and people that manage big budgets
06:40
generally, They have no mandate to jump on discovery
06:46
calls, sales calls, coffee chats, sitting through
06:50
webinars, white papers. That's not their job.
06:53
That's your job to try and shove that stuff in
06:56
front of people's faces. Hey, that's not their
06:58
job. If it's not their job to do it, you're kind
07:00
of banking on their curiosity or I don't know,
07:03
you're going to try and talk them into something.
07:05
But unless that's in their job description where
07:07
they have to evaluate stuff like that on a regular
07:09
basis or they get fired, then it's really hard
07:14
to do that. And it is such an uphill battle.
07:16
So what Bob Berg would tell you to do is why
07:19
don't you figure out what they actually really
07:22
do want truly. And again, it can't be something
07:27
that everybody else is giving away as part of
07:29
some sales funnel or whatever, right? And give
07:32
that away. Give generously. And most importantly,
07:36
Ashley, is you need to divorce the outcome that
07:40
you hope, right? In sales, we call this a two
07:43
-step approach, right? So initially, you have
07:47
to be okay with a 100 % give with absolutely
07:51
no return from the other person. If you can't
07:55
get there, sales is going to be very hard for
07:58
you. It's always going to feel like an uphill
07:59
challenge. And sometimes you're probably going
08:01
to feel a little slimy and it's going to feel
08:03
a little bit out of your value system. And it's
08:05
not your fault. The only reason you're doing
08:07
it that way is because someone told you that
08:09
that's what you're supposed to do. That is a
08:11
lie. I have got good data. I work with only high
08:14
level leaders. And what we know is that if you
08:17
can just show up and just serve other people
08:19
and give other people, serve your industry and
08:22
do nice things for other people and be okay with
08:25
that being the completion of the relationship,
08:29
that's where you want to get it. Now, if you
08:33
can get there, yeah, Ashley, I'm sure you can
08:36
imagine. What do you imagine the outcomes are
08:38
going to end up being? You'll have more authentic
08:40
relationships and actually make sales. You just
08:43
said it right there. That is what happens. It
08:47
is such an important distinction, and it doesn't
08:50
seem like it would be that huge. It is. And again,
08:53
I've got the data to prove this in having done
08:57
this for, again, as long as I've done it. You
09:01
have to be able to give away generously. And
09:03
then it's imagine this, right? So let's say,
09:06
and again, I can get nitty gritty on this. And
09:09
again, we'll get to pod verified because right
09:11
now I'm going to talk about how we implement
09:13
and grow sales and by hosting podcasts. And again,
09:17
what I want to say this before we continue. And
09:20
if there's any headline for this conversation,
09:24
I want it to be this or something akin to this,
09:26
right? Whatever the SEO gods tell you to do.
09:28
And that is, there is no better ecosystem on
09:34
the planet for sales and business development
09:37
and networking with high -level leaders than
09:40
podcasting. Nothing comes close. Show it to me.
09:44
And I will absolutely eat my hat or whatever
09:47
the expression is, right? And the reason is this,
09:49
podcast guesting and hosting is generally the
09:52
domain of leaders who are willing to give generously,
09:55
which generally attracts a pretty high caliber
09:59
type of person. They're not afraid. They're not
10:01
desperately, you know, just trying to funnel
10:03
someone into their sales thing or whatever, right?
10:06
So they've got some courage and generally they
10:09
have a little bit of experience. They've given
10:11
for some time. They know that giving is the path
10:13
to, you know, getting everything that you want.
10:15
Again, this goes back to, you know, ages and
10:18
ages, these principles. So yeah, so that's what
10:21
it, you know, that's, you know, again, it's podcasting,
10:24
either hosting or guesting. And I'm talking about
10:27
hosting right now. We'll talk about guesting
10:28
in just a second. So we can make sure to give
10:30
a lot of value and make sure we give lots of
10:32
great tips so that you can profit from your work
10:34
rather than just, you know, be out there hoping
10:38
to serve, but we got to help you make some money.
10:40
Okay. So think about this. leaders get opportunities
10:45
to speak. And I have to tell you that in all
10:49
my speaking opportunities that I've had, I've
10:50
spoken for the Tony Robbins organization. I've
10:52
spoken for social media marketing world several
10:54
years, you know, podcasting conferences, marketing
10:56
conferences, keynotes, all that stuff, right?
10:58
And so I'll tell you that. I don't necessarily
11:01
do a lot of business from the crowd, right? That's
11:05
not real. I am there to just give, give, give,
11:06
give, give, give, give, give, right? But here's
11:08
where I end up doing all my business, in the
11:10
green rooms afterwards, in the VIP mixers, you
11:13
know, just quiet conversations. afterwards where
11:17
people kind of pull me aside and like, you know,
11:19
I really appreciate it. And, you know, and then
11:20
that's, that's where we just kind of figure out
11:23
if there's business for us to do. Here's a great
11:25
illustration of this for, you know, to my friends
11:27
has ever been on a panel at a conference. Let's
11:30
say that you show up to a panel and you get to
11:33
meet your other panelists or whatever, and you
11:35
know, the behind the scenes stuff before and
11:37
afterwards, right? So you're there in service,
11:39
serving an audience with other leaders because
11:42
you're on a panel, right? And so Now, in that
11:45
process, you get to experience what the other
11:49
leaders on the panel are saying. So let's say
11:52
that there's someone on the panel and you're
11:53
like, oh, that's actually, you know, Ashley is
11:56
exactly the kind of person that I generally love
11:58
working with. And it sounds like, you know, she's
12:01
kind of at that caliber. I don't know. Maybe
12:04
she would be a good partner or maybe she could
12:06
be a client. I don't know. Right. We don't presuppose
12:08
anything, but. Let's say that, Ashley, you and
12:12
I are on this panel. We're serving an audience.
12:13
I hear you. You hear me. So we're getting to
12:15
feel one another. And you're like, okay, Josh
12:18
knows his stuff. And then afterwards, I say,
12:21
Ashley, I loved what you had to share. It sounds
12:24
like we have some things in common. Hey, let's
12:27
grab 30 minutes sometime on Zoom next week. I'd
12:29
love to see if there's something we should be
12:30
doing together. 100 % of the time, Ashley, I
12:34
got to tell you, people say yes. It would be
12:39
so weird to say no to an invitation like that.
12:42
So my question is, if that works so consistently,
12:47
why are we doing all this other stuff? Why are
12:50
we hitting people over the head in the DMs and
12:53
email and TikTok dances, you know, to try to
12:56
drum up business? That's hard. And everybody
12:59
does that. Instead, what I find is that most
13:03
successful leaders do most of their business
13:06
in what I like to call the whisper network. And
13:08
that's just the quiet conversations. It's not
13:12
showy. It's not flashy. It's just two leaders
13:14
figuring out if there's some opportunity to do
13:17
business together in some way or collaborate
13:19
in some way. And I'm telling you what, it is
13:21
so much fun to do business that way. I'm biased,
13:25
but there's no way. You could not get me. to
13:29
go into some environment where I'm supposed to
13:31
do this scarcity, urgency, nonsense. Like, ick,
13:35
ick, ick, ick. It's not for me anyway. Anyway,
13:38
that's kind of upped my influence historically
13:41
in a nutshell. And again, I teach all of this
13:44
stuff. I give it all away for free. And if it
13:46
gives you great ideas and I can free you from,
13:48
you know, maybe sales and marketing that doesn't
13:51
feel values aligned, man, I hope that I've inspired
13:55
you to get free of that. But of course, yeah.
13:58
Yeah, you're certainly welcome to connect with
14:01
me there. Ashley, I don't even remember that
14:03
question you asked me. I just started. I think
14:05
you pulled the Josh string and Josh just started
14:07
talking. And now the three fully back to my back
14:11
now. It's always fun whenever I pull the Josh
14:13
string because you never know what you're going
14:15
to say. It's always valuable. But basically,
14:18
I just wanted to talk to you about why bloggers
14:21
who are trying to get people on their websites
14:23
should be podcast guesting. Because, I mean,
14:26
I started the podcast for myself because I wanted
14:28
to talk to people and I wanted to learn more
14:30
about blogging. But now I'm seeing that guest
14:34
posting is dead. Guest podcasting is where it's
14:37
at. Yeah, and I'll share an observation. This
14:41
is really interesting. I'll be very frank. I've
14:43
not ever been like, well, I shouldn't say this.
14:46
In the past 10 years, blogging has been kind
14:50
of a secondary thing for us. And, you know, we've
14:55
not really gotten a lot of good SEO stuff, I
14:59
would say, if I'm being frank. But I'll tell
15:02
you this. I get now. And I'll explain what my
15:07
SEO person actually told me. We get a lot of
15:12
inbound, I think they call it GEO, right? It
15:15
was basically just... referrals from ChatGPT
15:19
and other AI tools. We've actually gotten a lot
15:22
of inbound calls and traffic from ChatGPT and
15:27
other AI tools. And so AI tends to value all
15:32
of this other content that may have not been
15:35
as easy historically for Google to rank you with.
15:39
So they see that you've got all of these impressions
15:41
everywhere. So if you want to kind of go where
15:43
the future is, just be out there creating. Another
15:47
thing I'll say for bloggers is that, for me,
15:50
if you know your stuff and you have a lot of
15:52
knowledge up here, now, I tend to be a verbal
15:55
processor, if you haven't guessed. I tend to,
15:58
you know, I have a lot of junk up here, so it's
16:01
pretty easy for me to just blah, blah, blah,
16:03
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, now, with
16:05
today's amazing tools, right, today's amazing
16:09
writing assistance and, of course, AI -enabled
16:12
tools, now, I can take... all of these words
16:16
that I've created, and now I can dump this into
16:19
my AI tools of choice and say, okay, here's a
16:23
transcript of all this stuff that I blah, blah,
16:26
blah about. Help me create some blog ideas based
16:30
upon, and then I give it all the other criteria,
16:32
what people are searching for, blah, blah, blah,
16:34
blah, blah. Okay, so now I've started it off.
16:37
you know, with a lot of raw content. So now I
16:40
can go into my AI tools and, uh, you know, I
16:43
can create a lot. So Ashley, you know, I, I,
16:45
I'm not necessarily a blogger, but you and I
16:47
are connected on social media and Facebook and
16:50
we engage quite a bit there. So that's really
16:53
what I do for my, sometimes I, I write way too
16:56
long for Facebook, but some of my, some of my
16:59
longer posts or whatever, here's all I do, um,
17:02
is I, I open up my tool and I just start talking,
17:05
talking, talking, talking, dump out, I do a brain
17:08
dump in there and I say, help me synthesize this
17:11
into maybe more of a well thought out structure
17:15
for a post, right? And then I get all of that.
17:18
I don't want it writing in my voice. And I'm
17:21
really adamant about, do not let AI try to replicate
17:25
your voice. I think that's just so fake. And
17:27
I'm just like, give me basic language. That's
17:30
not your job. It's my job to write in my voice.
17:33
That said, I love using tools like AI to help
17:37
construct thought and also fact check and check
17:41
my own biases and all that other stuff, which
17:44
I've got a prompt that I go through all of that
17:47
stuff. And then like, okay, this is a really
17:49
great outline. Okay. And then. I take it in and
17:53
I'm the one who writes it in my voice because
17:55
that to me is part of that sacred relationship
17:58
I always have with an audience that they are
18:01
not hearing just some fake AI nonsense. I need
18:04
to make sure that if I'm saying this is me, it
18:06
better be me. Understand? There's another reason
18:09
why bloggers should, a couple of few reasons
18:11
why bloggers should be podcasting. Because again,
18:13
think of like how many words Josh has talked
18:16
about, has used, you know, in the past 20 minutes.
18:19
There's a lot of words. There's a lot of content
18:21
to work with potentially. So I'm going to give
18:23
this to my team. And I'm like, hey, dump this
18:26
through and come up with some blog ideas now.
18:28
And repurpose it for social media. Obviously,
18:31
we can create vertical videos. We can create
18:33
reels, you know, all that other kind of stuff.
18:35
You could repurpose it so many. ways, you know,
18:38
with this pillar content now that we've created.
18:41
That's true. And what's really cool to me is
18:44
that if I guest on someone else's podcast, that's
18:46
still more content I can play with. And in a
18:49
lot of cases, you get a backlink. Oh, for sure.
18:53
And it's great. What I like to say, so as a media
18:55
consultant, I would say that is third -party
18:57
validation, right? So you get to say things because
19:01
you got asked the question. So you now get to
19:04
give all of your stuff in a way that maybe you
19:07
wouldn't normally do with your own audience,
19:10
right? You might be a little bit more bold in
19:13
the way that you're communicating. And again,
19:15
you're being seen and being requested because
19:19
of your expertise. you know, to be seen all over
19:22
the internet. Not just talking, you know, kind
19:25
of one -to -one with your own people, but they
19:27
get to see you making the rounds everywhere.
19:29
That is validation. And third -party validation
19:33
beats conversation all the time. That's absolutely
19:37
true. And so now that we've established that
19:39
bloggers definitely do need to be on people's
19:41
podcasts, how the heck do they make it happen?
19:43
Okay, well, so let me give you a glimpse behind
19:48
that whole world. So I started podcasting in
19:51
2007 when I was taking my radio segments for
19:55
my other company, Savings Angel. And I converted,
19:59
I record them off the radio, convert it into
20:01
MP3, upload it to my own server, hand code my
20:05
own RSS feed. And somehow, I didn't even submit
20:09
it, but somehow Apple... or iTunes founded and
20:14
started putting my show on. And the cover was
20:16
just, it was so janky back then. It was just,
20:19
but hey, so I've been doing this for a long,
20:23
long, long time, right? And I feel like I've
20:25
got some pretty good objective data around the
20:28
guesting world, right? Because what I said is
20:31
there's no better ecosystem on the planet for
20:33
networking, business and sales development. because
20:36
of who you can meet and the relationships that
20:38
you can build and the opportunities that can
20:41
be had. So your question is, how do I guest on
20:45
more podcasts? So I'll share this, is that right
20:48
now where you are, you are going to have a perceived
20:54
value as a guest, right? And that's based on
20:58
a lot of criteria. Now, if you want to do a simple
21:01
free test, Got a great website that you can go
21:05
to. It's free and it will give you a score on
21:08
how valuable you are in the eyes of podcast hosts.
21:12
You need to know this score because what unfortunately
21:16
a lot of people do is they say, well, I'm an
21:19
expert in this. I wrote a book on this. I'm an
21:21
expert speaker, whatever, right? Author, speaker,
21:24
coach on whatever, right? And so what they do
21:26
is they start sending spam to Mel Robbins or
21:30
Joe Rogan or whatever, right? Good luck. with
21:32
that, I can tell you that your chances of getting
21:35
booked on those shows is 0 .000001. Yes, there
21:41
is a chance, but it's such a bad use of your
21:44
time, and most importantly, it's a bad use of
21:47
your hope. What you should be doing is get clarity
21:51
on what caliber of stages you belong, and you
21:57
should be playing at that caliber. Now, I share
22:01
the inverse of the example of kind of pitching
22:04
way too high is that what I see most guests doing
22:08
is they're spending way... too much time on shows
22:11
that are way early stage for them because it's
22:15
easy to get on brand new podcasts. So we kind
22:19
of feel good that we got accepted to some show.
22:23
Now, it might be a little amateur hour, right?
22:26
Your experience of that. But even worse, you're
22:29
not going to make any money doing it. It was
22:31
kind of it's good for getting your reps in. And
22:35
there are some. you know, find ecosystems out
22:37
there that will help you get connected with newer
22:39
podcasts. But if you want to be on stages that
22:41
are appropriate for your level of professional
22:44
success, get clarity. And then what you want
22:47
to do is try to identify who your peers are.
22:50
Again, at Podverified, it's free. Now, the matching,
22:54
that part is, you know, that's the paid part
22:56
of it. If, you know, we'll give you some ideas
22:58
of where you belong. We'll show you some examples
23:00
of like, you know, kind of where you could expect
23:02
to be. And then, you know, the paid part is,
23:04
of course, you know, we'll... match that for
23:07
you and only charge you, you know, when we land
23:09
you a great spot. But we got to get that clarity
23:12
so that we can make sure that you're actually
23:14
on stages that are going to move the dial. Okay.
23:16
Now, but let me tell you what the process is.
23:19
And I'm just going to reveal, this is exactly
23:21
what we do, right? Or you could do it yourself,
23:24
right? So once you know that it's an appropriate
23:28
size stage for your caliber, that's number one.
23:31
Number two is your You have to understand that
23:36
this podcast host, they don't work for you, okay?
23:38
It's not, they, most podcasters, especially if
23:42
they've been podcasting for any length of time,
23:43
usually they're not hurting for guests, which
23:46
means if your approach is to just pitch them
23:50
with some email pitch or whatever. That's usually
23:54
going to come across as a little crass. It's
23:58
the way, unfortunately, that I'll say that probably
24:01
about 90 % of the guesting agencies operate.
24:05
They buy themselves a big email list of podcaster
24:07
email addresses, and then they just send out
24:10
spam, which is why, unfortunately, a lot of people
24:12
who have invested money to guest on podcasts
24:15
haven't really gotten much return on investment.
24:17
It feels good. It feels productive. It feels
24:21
validating to have somebody... accept you. But
24:24
at the end of the day, I think, you know, for
24:26
making investments of our time and money, like
24:28
we were running businesses here. Like we, we
24:31
have to see, you know, opportunity. So I've been
24:35
on. You know, I've been on some really small
24:38
amateur stages. Then I've also been on some pretty
24:41
big shows. Social Media Examiner was a huge opportunity
24:44
for me. You know, back in the day, you know,
24:47
Entrepreneur on Fire, you know, Don Lee Dumas.
24:49
You know, I got a lot of business from that.
24:51
The bigger show, Mixergy was another one that
24:54
I ended up getting some really great business
24:56
out of it. And it's a night and day difference.
25:00
You know, depending, you know, that caliber of
25:02
stage. So, you know, if you show up to an event
25:05
and you... the keynote speaker, people just treat
25:06
you way different than if you show up on, you
25:09
know, some little podunk mixer, you know, which
25:12
is nothing wrong with podunk mixers. But you
25:15
just have to, you know, it's not a keynote opportunity
25:18
in front of thousands of people. You know what
25:20
I'm saying? So, again, you have to decide where
25:22
you want to spend your time. And if your goal
25:24
is to stay in business, get consistent revenue,
25:28
grow your business, make your life a lot easier,
25:31
not have to stress about the ups and downs financially,
25:34
you just got to keep on getting out there. And
25:38
the bigger stages are just going to pay you so
25:40
much better. Okay, let's get back to how you
25:42
reach out. I keep, I gotta say this. I gotta
25:46
tell you this. Okay. So here's, here's what you
25:49
do. So don't, don't spray and pray. Do not do
25:53
that. You are going to get blacklisted. You're
25:54
going to get marked as spam. You are going to
25:56
get, you're going to sustain reputational damage.
26:00
And I don't think any of us listening or in this
26:03
participating in this conversation right now
26:05
want to be known as a spammer. I just don't believe
26:08
that. Right. So. Because this is our legacy that
26:11
we're talking about. What do you want to be known
26:13
for? How do you want to be seen in your industry?
26:18
So here's what you do. It's called the three
26:22
-week warm -up. Okay, and this is all part of
26:24
like what we do over at PodVerified. And they
26:26
teach you this stuff for free, by the way. So
26:28
you don't have to pay for any of this stuff.
26:29
And all the education at PodVerified is always
26:32
free. And I'm going to teach you how to make
26:34
money. I'll teach you all that other stuff, right?
26:35
So I'll teach you about, you know, calls to action,
26:37
how to do all that. And again, it's free, free,
26:39
free, free. I don't charge for anything education
26:42
-wise. I am very much open source from my philosophy
26:46
when it comes to knowledge and education. But
26:51
here's the process. So let's say that there's
26:54
a show that you want to be on and you qualify.
26:57
You know that you qualify because the caliber
26:59
of guests match your caliber. You know that,
27:02
right? So here's what you do. Three weeks. Three
27:05
-week warm -up. Week one. Okay, again, the idea
27:09
here is you're not going to spray and pray. You're
27:11
going to spend more time with fewer people. But
27:15
if you do this well, you should have a conversion
27:17
rate somewhere between 30 % and 60%. And again,
27:21
sorry to give you such a wide range, but there
27:24
are a lot of other factors that we don't have
27:25
time to get into. But generally... Probably about
27:29
a third or better of these people are going to
27:31
say yes if you do it this way. Now, think about
27:34
what we've been talking about. Money. Impact.
27:37
Growth. You know, why did you get into business
27:39
in the first place? It's to make an impact in
27:41
the world, probably, right? And get paid to do
27:43
so and keep doing it and not be stressed out
27:45
month to month. Okay. So this is how you do this.
27:47
Spend more time with fewer people. These are
27:49
leaders. These are A -listers. These are pros.
27:52
Okay. So you need to treat them as such. They
27:55
don't work for you. It's not their job to promote
27:58
your business. What they have their own goals.
28:01
Podcasters are always looking for the highest
28:03
caliber guests that they can. And they're trying
28:05
to grow their audience. Most of them. That's
28:07
their primary mission, right? So can you help
28:10
them accomplish that goal? So think about it
28:13
from their side of the table, generally what
28:15
they want. And they may have lots of other business
28:17
goals. And again, that's going to vary depending
28:19
on who it is and what their business plan is.
28:21
But generally, almost all content creators want
28:23
to grow their audience. So you know that going
28:25
into it. So here's what you do. Number one is
28:29
you're going to have to get familiar. Don't start
28:32
with 100 shows. I want you to pick two. Two shows.
28:36
That's it. Just start two shows each week. And
28:39
what I want you to do is I just want you to sample
28:41
their content. That's it. Sample. You don't even
28:44
have to listen to the entire shows or episodes
28:47
or whatever, but I want you to spend some time
28:50
trying to get to know them. Now you're looking
28:53
for some things, okay? I also want you to follow
28:55
them on their social media. Look at their repurposed
28:58
content. What you're trying to look for are values.
29:02
biases uh what are they most passionate about
29:06
and and really take note of that stuff what do
29:10
they like to talk about what is their mission
29:12
like why are they doing this if you can learn
29:15
that oh mama like that is some valuable intel
29:20
and it's not that hard all right so just do a
29:24
little bit of homework listen all of this said
29:26
you're in maybe 30 45 minutes in a week's time
29:31
Honestly, it doesn't take, and the ROI from your
29:34
time is worth many, many hundreds, if not thousands
29:37
of dollars, potentially depending on what your
29:39
business model is. Okay, so first week is research
29:42
and start to learn about them. Week two, now
29:47
you're going to start to engage with the podcast
29:50
host on social media, right? You are not, you
29:54
are going to engage with them as a fan, as a
29:59
peer. right? So you're not going to be total
30:02
like, oh my gosh, you're so big and I'm so tiny.
30:05
Like, it's not that energy. It's just like, hey,
30:08
listen, I'm an executive or I'm a leader. I'm
30:11
a founder and I'm doing this or whatever. I really
30:13
appreciated the insights that you share. That
30:15
was really valuable. Thank you so much. It's
30:17
just stuff like that. And so if you spend a week
30:21
and do not be fake, do. Not delegate this to
30:28
a VA or AI or you will be so hated. Not hated,
30:34
but it's just like, oh, get out of here with
30:36
the fake stuff, right? Don't be fake. So there
30:38
are things that you can outsource and delegate
30:41
and you should, right? And then there are things
30:44
that you should not delegate or outsource. And
30:47
so systems, organization, project management,
30:53
task management, You know, stuff like that, like
30:57
the minutiae, that should all be delegated. Don't
31:01
do that work, right? You can delegate that very
31:03
easily, right? What you would never delegate
31:06
is relationship. If you delegate relationship,
31:09
I'll tell you what, I would feel so ripped off.
31:13
If I felt like that you were reaching out to
31:16
me, but you're being fake about it and you're
31:18
delegate, like I'm really not worth that amount
31:21
to you that you're not even willing to just say
31:24
hi and thank you to me. Instead, you got to have
31:27
your AI bot do it. That's not a good look. And
31:30
guess what? We can all tell. You're not fooling
31:33
anybody, right? So don't do that. So just, again,
31:36
we're talking maybe 30, 45 minutes because we're
31:39
only talking about two shows. We're only talking
31:41
about two people. You can build a relationship
31:45
or start to begin a relationship with two people
31:47
by investing 30, 45 minutes in a week. And again,
31:50
remember the ROI. Hundreds, if not thousands
31:53
of dollars per hour. This is the work. This is
31:55
what you get paid for. Listen. In my work as
31:59
a fractional chief revenue officer, I'll tell
32:01
you this. You have an obligation, and your obligation,
32:05
if you're the founder and you're involved, it's
32:07
your responsibility to grow the company. You
32:09
have one job, and you have a moral obligation
32:11
to grow your company. And the most important
32:13
thing that I would argue that you should be doing
32:16
from an e -myth perspective is not all the minutia,
32:18
not cleaning your desk, not all the stuff that
32:21
you can delegate. It should be high -level relationships
32:23
with high -level leaders. That's your number
32:27
one job. You do that and the rest of everything
32:29
will kind of take care of itself. I promise you
32:32
that. Okay, so week two, you're building a relationship,
32:35
just engaging professionally and supporting their
32:39
work. It's amazing. And Ashley, listen, I've
32:42
done over 2 ,400 episodes for my show, The Thoughtful
32:46
Entrepreneur. If I were to say that the fan feedback
32:50
is modest, I think that I would be using hyperbole.
32:55
It is meager. And that is just the reality because
33:00
you know what? Everybody's busy. A lot of people
33:04
are creating content. And so if somebody engages
33:07
with me. legitimately, genuinely on social media,
33:10
I'm going to remember them. I really will. I
33:13
will appreciate it. I know, you know, you can
33:15
also leave reviews and all that other stuff.
33:17
And sure, that's cool. You know, you could definitely
33:19
throw that into the mix. But honestly, I just
33:21
think that genuine conversation is just the best
33:24
tool for relationship building. Just, again,
33:28
go give her. Take what you want. Set it aside,
33:32
okay, for now, right? Again, we're just going
33:34
to focus on the relationship first and give,
33:36
give, give, give, give, give, okay? So finally,
33:40
week three, okay? Now, you only engage in week
33:44
three activity after you have received some acknowledgement
33:48
back from the host that they see you and they
33:51
appreciate you. So again, be genuine. Don't rat
33:57
-a -tat -tat them. I mean, but just, you know.
34:00
Meet them on LinkedIn, you know, engage with
34:02
their content, find out where they're posting,
34:04
right? Just comment, leave, you know, if you
34:07
can comment within, you know, apps or whatever.
34:09
I mean, just wherever you can see them, their
34:12
content showing up and there's an opportunity
34:14
to engage, just engage and don't go over the
34:17
top, but just be genuine, right? Good point.
34:20
I love it. Share their stuff with your audience.
34:23
Now you're really talking because now that's
34:25
where the rubber hits the road and hosts really
34:27
love that stuff. Okay. Finally, week three. Hey,
34:32
Josh. And again, what I would do is I would start
34:34
off by doing this publicly. And I would respond
34:38
to a comment, you know, some of their podcast
34:41
content. And you say, you know, I've actually
34:43
been following you for a little while now. I
34:45
really love what you're doing. It feels like
34:46
we have some values aligned here. Again, I always
34:49
love pointing out when we share values or there's
34:52
like, I really, I appreciate that you support
34:55
this, right? Because everyone's got their biases.
34:58
Everyone's got their thing, right? And go ahead
35:00
and lean into that, right? So I'm a military
35:03
veteran owned business. So you know what? Obviously
35:05
I support. you know, I support some of those
35:08
causes associated with that. So that's, it's
35:11
going to be pretty easy to figure out what I
35:12
believe in if you follow my stuff. And so, and
35:15
if, by the way, if you're not aligned, that's
35:17
okay. Maybe it's not a fit for you. And I'm not,
35:20
don't ever lie. Like, you know, it's like if
35:23
you share very distinct differences in political
35:26
views, it's okay if you don't engage with that
35:29
person because there are people that will. Okay.
35:31
So third week. I would start off by commenting.
35:34
Don't hit their DMs. Don't hit their emails.
35:36
But I would say something to the effect of, hey,
35:39
Josh, I've been listening a little while. I really
35:40
appreciate the stuff, you know, you know, and
35:42
I'll recognize you because I saw you earlier.
35:45
And if you just said, listen, what is your guest?
35:48
process. So obviously you interview guests. I
35:50
think I'm at the caliber that you, that you normally
35:53
enter. You know, I, I kind of took a look at,
35:55
you know, who you interview and, you know, I,
35:57
I think I, you know, might be aligned there,
35:59
but do you, do you have an assistant or do you
36:02
have an application that, um, that, that I could,
36:04
uh, you know, potentially throw my hat in the
36:06
ring. And by the way, you absolutely can say
36:08
no. Right. If you send me that message, I'm going
36:12
to be like, Oh my gosh, that is so super cool
36:16
of you. Yes, if I can, right, if I can accept
36:20
you, then I'll tell you what that process is.
36:22
And I might, you know, the host might say, sure,
36:26
why don't you DM me? That's great. If they don't
36:29
want to talk about that publicly or whatever.
36:31
But that's all you're looking for is don't try
36:33
to force them into how you want to get booked
36:36
on their show. Ask them how they like to engage
36:39
with guests because they all have a process.
36:42
Now, some of the newer shows may not have that
36:44
process buttoned down entirely. Like it might
36:47
be still a little scattershot for them. But most
36:50
of the established shows, like they've got a
36:52
process or they've got a person, right? And so
36:54
then in the DMs, they'll just give you the, you
36:57
know. They'll give, they'll share it to you.
36:59
Now, if they don't respond immediately and, you
37:02
know, maybe you add like a little emoji or whatever
37:04
to your, you know, you just add like a, like
37:06
your, like your own comment or something like
37:08
that, or, you know, so it gives them another
37:09
ping. So they see, cause they might just, just
37:12
miss it. Right. And, and, and if they miss it,
37:14
that doesn't mean a no. So I don't want you to
37:16
think just because you asked and they didn't
37:18
respond, they may have been too busy. They didn't
37:20
see it or whatever. Right. So that's what you
37:22
do. Now, if they don't see it. Then I'd say,
37:25
but you've already been engaging with them. Then
37:27
I would say it might be appropriate to send them
37:29
a DM and LinkedIn or whatever, you know, a connection
37:31
request. Or again, if their email is visible
37:34
on their website or if there's any other like
37:37
a contact form or something like that, go to
37:40
their website, do a little digging. I just spend
37:42
a little bit of time here and reach out to them
37:45
in the way that they are offering, you know,
37:48
inviting people to reach out with them. Yeah.
37:51
So, so, so if you just do that and then again,
37:54
I would just send that same note. Hey, Ashley,
37:56
listen, I really appreciate the content. You
37:59
have really great guests. I think I might be
38:01
of the caliber that you normally interview. What
38:04
is your process for, you know, accepting guest
38:06
applications? I'd be honored to throw my hat
38:08
in the ring and you can always say no. Right.
38:11
And so it lets them off the hook there. And listen,
38:13
you just simply do that. And again, I think you
38:16
should do about a 30 % or better acceptance rate.
38:19
And now we're talking because if you can do two
38:22
of these a week, and let's say, you know, out
38:25
of every four. or every, you know, every five
38:27
you get, I'm messing up my math now. But out
38:30
of every 10, you know, over the course of, you
38:32
know, over five weeks, you know, you land three
38:35
decent sized podcasts. Let me tell you, that
38:37
can really move the needle because you're not
38:40
looking for everybody. You're looking for the
38:41
right people, right? To engage with typically.
38:44
So there you go, Ashley. That is, by the way,
38:47
what I've just shared with you is based upon
38:49
conversations with hundreds of podcasters. When
38:53
I've talked to them about this topic, They all
38:56
agree that is a very, very safe. That is what
38:59
they want. That's what they're hoping for. And
39:01
that is what the podcast guesting industry refuses
39:04
to do because they're too damn lazy and they
39:07
need to get their act together or they're going
39:09
to get their clock clean and they're going to
39:11
start losing business because they realize that
39:14
spamming is not the future of the way podcasting
39:18
works. Podcasting is based upon relationships.
39:21
It's the way public relations traditionally has
39:23
always been. There's just way too many. bro -y
39:25
marketers that are trying to cheapen the system.
39:27
But I'll tell you, don't spend money to spammers.
39:30
Instead, just take the time, build a relationship
39:32
yourself, and you'll have far better results.
39:34
And by the way, I love all of my podcast guesting
39:37
agencies. I know you're doing the best you can.
39:39
You'll keep getting better. Well, I know you
39:42
like the podcast guesting agencies, but you also
39:43
are just trying to put the people that are cheapening
39:47
it on blast. I want to celebrate the good ones
39:51
who has the time. That's all I'm saying. Yeah.
39:54
I understand. It makes complete sense to me.
39:57
And if someone's getting offended by what you're
39:59
saying, they're probably doing it wrong. Well,
40:02
and you'll know that based on how, you know,
40:04
how many clients you keep losing. You know, what
40:07
their results are. Because clients need to get
40:10
ROI. And if you're not delivering ROI, you're
40:14
going to keep in this, you're going to keep going
40:15
through this churn, churn, churn, churn, churn.
40:17
And it's going to be so frustrating for you.
40:19
And you're going to think it's everybody's problem.
40:20
No, it's not everybody's problem. We have clients
40:22
that are public relations professionals that
40:24
have clients for years. Yeah. You know, it's
40:27
just, they are not afraid to do the hard work
40:29
that, you know, it's human centric. It's, you
40:32
know, that's how I got my 3000 media appearances.
40:34
I never once sent a press release. It was reaching
40:38
out just like I've described. And, you know,
40:41
800 and some TV appearances, you know, writing
40:44
my syndicated column. I got all of that stuff
40:46
because I reached out human to human, offered
40:49
to be helpful, you know, even agreed to do stuff
40:51
that really didn't benefit me much. But as a
40:54
result, now I started a collaborative relationship
40:56
with that producer, journalist or booking agent
40:59
or whatever, really make them look good at their
41:02
job. And then that led to a lot of other invitations
41:05
and introductions. Well, it definitely sounds
41:08
like that's the best way to begin. But once people
41:11
are ready to go to the next level, I know we're
41:13
wrapping up on time here, but when they're ready
41:15
to go to the next level, how does PodVerified
41:18
work so that they can kind of... get in there
41:21
and get stuff done yeah so listen it's it's it's
41:25
basically like i said it's basically credit karma
41:27
for podcast guesting so now you know you've got
41:29
clarity over where you are and then part two
41:31
is you know kind of the match component of that
41:34
right so then what we do is um and currently
41:37
Our pricing is, you know, we're in beta. So right
41:40
now our pricing is you only pay when we land
41:44
you a position. Now we ask for credits up front.
41:46
And so it's $297 or $397 if he wants to do a
41:50
bunch of other stuff for you, whatever. But,
41:52
you know, $297. You have to buy four of them,
41:54
four credits. And that will give my team the
41:56
bandwidth so that we can start introducing you
41:59
to folks both within our network and then other
42:02
people, again, that are, again, most importantly,
42:04
they're pod verified aligned. Like they're the
42:06
right size stages. for you. And again, these
42:08
should be the stages that are going to be the
42:09
most profitable for you. They're the highest
42:11
quality stages that you can qualify for. And
42:14
those are going to be the ones that we're going
42:15
to follow this same exact process. And it's going
42:17
to be friend to friend to friend. And that's
42:19
how we're going to do it. No spam. But yeah,
42:21
so you could just go get your free score at podverified
42:24
.com. And then once you're in there, I'm going
42:27
to teach you a bunch of other stuff for free,
42:28
like how to make money, how to give great closing,
42:31
you know, calls to action, that sort of thing.
42:34
And that's all free. And I would be honored to
42:37
help improve the world of podcast guesting. Because
42:40
as I mentioned... Ashley, there's no better ecosystem
42:43
on the planet for business sales development
42:45
and networking. And by the way, if I could put
42:48
one more plug into my podcast, The Thoughtful
42:50
Entrepreneur, I'm always looking for guests.
42:53
If you are B2B, you're pretty good at what you
42:56
do. You've been around for a little while, especially
42:58
if you're a coach, consultant, agency owner,
43:01
or B2B service provider. You just simply go to
43:04
my website. It's www .upmyinfluence .com. And
43:11
when you go there, just click on podcast and
43:13
you'll see guest application. You don't have
43:16
to DM me. I just gave you exactly, that's how
43:20
you do it. So you're welcome to, but you don't
43:22
have to do that. So we make it real easy for
43:24
you. And then on the guest application page,
43:27
we've got a whole system. We've done this over
43:29
2 ,400 times. We really love rolling out the
43:32
red carpet for our guests and we've got over
43:33
100 ,000 in social. So it's a really good audience.
43:36
It's an audience of what I like to call business
43:38
adults. Generally folks that have been in business
43:40
for five or more years, they're founders and
43:42
generally pretty sophisticated people. They're
43:45
really great audience to do business with. Well,
43:47
that's fantastic. And I have to say, you know,
43:49
I have been sheepish and not wanted to apply
43:52
myself to be on The Thoughtful Entrepreneur.
43:55
But I think I'm finally at the top. It's a mistake.
43:57
Actually, you've already been given the invitation.
43:59
Go take care of that. Go do what I just said.
44:03
And, you know, again, the team will take care
44:04
of you. If you're afraid of rejection, please
44:06
don't. It has nothing to do with your value.
44:08
Like anyone in particular. I'm not talking to
44:10
you, Ashley, but anyone. Please don't be afraid
44:13
of rejection. If they say no, it's genuinely
44:16
just it. It's usually just a logistical thing.
44:18
It has really not a whole lot to do with your
44:20
value or your worth. So don't worry about being
44:24
hurt or offended. But thank you for having me.
44:27
Our time is over. Yes, it is. It's over. It went
44:30
fast, but you gave a lot of amazing knowledge
44:32
bombs. And I can't wait to share all of this
44:34
stuff with our listeners. And I'll leave all
44:37
of the links in the show notes. And Josh, thank
44:39
you again for your time. I appreciate it. Ashley
44:41
Grant, you are amazing. Thanks for having me.
44:43
Thank you. All right. I'll talk to you real soon.
44:45
Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.
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