Episode 72Jun 13, 2025· 33:58
Make Money Selling Blogs with Andy of Empire Flippers
About this episode
Wanna know the real secrets to making money by selling blogs and online businesses? Get insider tips from Andy at Empire Flippers. If you’ve ever wondered how bloggers cash in big or how a single referral earned someone $80,000, you won’t want to miss this episode!
Sell or buy a blog here: https://famousashleygrant.com/empireflippers
Find Andy…
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Full transcript
00:02
Welcome to the Bloggy Friends Show. What's up,
00:25
my Bloggy friends? Famous Ashley Grant here,
00:26
and I just want to welcome you to the Bloggy
00:28
Friends Show. We're so excited to have you join
00:30
us on this journey of sharing our knowledge and
00:32
experiences with you. Whether you're a blogger,
00:35
a content creator, or just someone who's interested
00:37
in learning more about the digital world, we've
00:39
got something for you. So grab your notebook
00:41
and a pen to take some notes, or just sit back
00:43
and take in all the amazing information and ideas
00:45
we're about to share with you. Let's get into
00:47
it. I am super stoked to have you here, Andy.
00:50
We have Andy with Empire Flippers, and he's going
00:52
to be talking to us all about what it is that
00:54
Empire Flippers is and how you can actually use
00:57
it to make money. So, Andy, welcome to the show.
00:59
Cool. Pleasure to be here. Thank you for having
01:01
me. So give me the Reader's Digest version. What
01:04
is Empire Flippers? Cool. Empire Flippers, we're
01:07
a marketplace for buying and selling online businesses.
01:10
So we sell anything from e -commerce stores,
01:14
Amazon businesses, SaaS. agencies, all kinds
01:19
of things. And so we have a vetted marketplace
01:22
of about like 150 or so listings normally that
01:25
have been through our vetting process. We try
01:28
and plug sellers into buyers, hopefully get listings
01:31
sold. And then we have some support to migrate
01:34
the assets and stuff like that. But effectively,
01:36
we're a marketplace for online businesses. Awesome.
01:39
Now, at some point, was it mainly like niche
01:42
websites and blogs or was it always all those
01:45
things? Yeah, so definitely our heritage was
01:49
on like niche websites and small content sites.
01:52
And we have two US founders and they were originally
01:55
were like kind of building out small sites themselves
01:58
and basically kind of built Empire Flippers or
02:00
actually it was originally called AdSense Flippers
02:02
because they were kind of AdSense sites. And
02:05
they built out the marketplace initially to sell
02:07
their own. little sites that they were building.
02:09
And then it kind of like snowballed from there.
02:11
They had people asking them, hey, can I sell
02:13
my site on your marketplace as well? And that's
02:16
probably 11, 12 years ago now. And we've just
02:19
kind of grown from there. Wow. So if someone
02:21
decides that they do want to sell their website,
02:23
what's the first steps that they take with Empire
02:25
Flippers? So if somebody wants to sell their
02:27
site or their online business, then they would
02:29
submit their, well, first of all, they could
02:31
get a valuation on our website. We have a valuation
02:33
tool. And then they would effectively submit
02:36
their business to our vetting process. So everything
02:38
that goes on our marketplace goes through our
02:40
vetting process first. We actually only list
02:43
somewhere around like 5 % of the businesses that
02:46
get submitted to us. And basically, you know,
02:49
we obviously have a bunch of kind of checks and
02:51
things that are quality checks. And we'll also
02:54
only kind of list the business if we think we
02:56
can get it sold at a price which like makes sense
02:57
for the seller as well. Now, how does the vetting
03:00
process work? Like, is it really extensive or
03:02
is there like a lot of things that someone would
03:04
have to have ready to go in order to go through
03:06
that vetting process? So it's pretty extensive.
03:10
You know, we probably have the most stringent
03:12
vetting in the industry, but we also have like
03:15
a pretty big vetting team and we give a lot of
03:17
support and guidance through the process. So
03:20
there's not really too much that anyone needs
03:22
to have ahead of time because... For example,
03:25
we'll, you know, via API, we connect to a lot
03:27
of the main platforms like Amazon, Shopify, these
03:30
kind of things. We'll help build out the P &L
03:32
and we kind of guide through the process with
03:34
Q &As and stuff like that. So like it is some
03:37
work, I won't lie, but our team will kind of
03:40
guide people through each step. I'm curious,
03:42
what kind of numbers are you looking for in order
03:44
to actually have someone be willing or not willing,
03:47
but able to put their website on your marketplace?
03:51
Yeah, so we have like a pretty wide range. So
03:53
our kind of minimum profit requirement is $2
03:57
,000 a month, right? You know, so at an average
04:00
valuation, which obviously depends on a lot of
04:03
things, but that's probably somewhere in the
04:05
50 to 70, 80K list price, depending on the business.
04:09
So we have kind of like those high five figure
04:12
sites and we go kind of right up to seven and
04:16
sometimes eight figure sales as well. So you
04:18
said that your roots are in AdSense. So how would
04:21
you evaluate if someone was getting 2K a month,
04:24
let's say from service sales or something like
04:25
that? Yeah, I mean, well, that is quite a long
04:28
time ago now that kind of our heritage was in
04:31
niche sites. You know, so we have a evaluation
04:34
tool, which is kind of specific to each monetization
04:36
and our vetting team. You know, these days they
04:39
probably see more e -commerce businesses or SaaS
04:42
or things like that than they do niche sites
04:44
because, you know, kind of. Google crushed a
04:47
lot of those sites in the last couple of years.
04:48
So it's not quite as big as it was. Yes, I like
04:51
to call it the anything but helpful content update
04:54
because it's definitely hurt a lot of websites.
04:58
So are you seeing like an uptick in people wanting
05:00
to sell their websites because of Google or it
05:02
just happens to be, you know, anybody could sell
05:05
at any time? Yeah, I mean, I think, well, initially
05:08
kind of after that, which I think was kind of
05:10
September 2023. I mean, to be honest, a lot of
05:14
the sites were just not sellable because some
05:16
of the drops were so crazy. And so, you know,
05:20
that's a very difficult time to sell a site,
05:22
particularly for kind of a number that makes
05:24
sense for the seller. But, you know, if things
05:26
did steady out a little bit like that, and then
05:29
some kind of got their traffic back through last
05:31
year to a certain point. Yeah, we probably did
05:35
see an uptick in sellers wanting to sell, but
05:37
not necessarily with assets that were at that
05:40
point sellable. Now, you mentioned that some
05:43
were trying to get traffic back. Did you guys
05:44
coach anyone on how to get their traffic back?
05:47
Or it was just kind of like, hey, do your best.
05:51
Yeah, I mean, you know, we obviously will when
05:53
it comes to exit planning and give advice on
05:57
how to prepare businesses for sale. But, you
06:00
know, we don't pretend to know the whims of Google
06:02
and there are, you know, SEO experts, much better
06:05
kind of position to do that. So when it comes
06:07
to like specific how to get your traffic back,
06:09
that's not really our bag. But we do do a lot
06:12
of calls with sellers, even like one year, two
06:14
years out from selling, where we'll kind of give
06:16
advice on how to maximize valuation, stuff like
06:19
that. That makes complete sense. Yeah, I know
06:21
a lot of people that are trying to get that traffic
06:24
back. I mean, one of my blogger friends, she
06:26
was getting a million views a month and she went
06:28
down to 10 ,000 views a month. And it's like
06:30
these crushing blows that you're like, OK, what
06:32
do I do now? And I've built all of this. But
06:36
that's not why we're here to talk today. I just
06:39
was kind of curious on your take on things. But
06:41
what got my attention and what actually prompted
06:43
me to ask you to be on the show is I received
06:46
an email early in April that said we paid $80
06:48
,000 for one click. Want in? And I was like,
06:52
what is this? And of course, it talks about a
06:54
referral program. Tell me about this referral
06:57
program and how in the world people can use it
06:59
to monetize their own efforts. Cool. Yeah. So
07:02
in a nutshell, our referral program is that if
07:05
somebody refers a buyer or a seller to Empire
07:08
Flippers and that person either sells their business
07:11
or buys a business, then we will pay a portion
07:14
of our fee to the person that referred them.
07:17
So we've been running it for quite a few years
07:19
now. And yeah, we've paid out some big amounts.
07:24
That one, definitely one of the biggest. The
07:26
fun thing about that deal actually was that both
07:28
the seller and the buyer came through a referral
07:31
partner. So we did pay that person $80 ,000 for
07:34
one click. I forget exactly how the buyer came
07:37
through to us, but we pay somebody $80 ,000 on
07:40
the other side of that deal as well. So that
07:42
was a good one all around. Yeah. And of course,
07:44
that's something that people dream about is like
07:46
getting that kind of money from one click. So
07:48
if someone were to want to be part of this referral
07:51
program, I know you said your vetting process
07:53
is kind of wild for selling a website, but what's
07:56
your vetting process look like for someone who
07:57
wants to join the referral program? Yeah, I mean,
07:59
we're kind of. Pretty open to people signing
08:02
up. And, you know, obviously the people that
08:05
do best with the program typically are people
08:08
that have either like some sort of audience or
08:10
community or are creating content somewhere.
08:13
And, you know, we obviously want to a little
08:17
bit have some safety checks on our message. You
08:19
know, we don't want people signed up that are
08:20
just like spamming stuff or over -promising stuff
08:23
that we won't do. But as long as that isn't happening
08:26
and we think like the person has a viable path
08:28
to kind of, you know, drive some traffic, then
08:31
we're generally pretty open to accepting. Now,
08:34
I know you said the 80 ,000 was kind of like
08:36
a bigger number. What do most people in your
08:39
referral program, like what do you see in terms
08:41
of like averages of what people can actually
08:43
earn? Yeah, I mean, so, you know, as I say, we
08:45
sell everything from kind of 50K businesses on
08:49
the low end. You know, we're going to typically
08:52
take about a 15 % fee on that up to like seven
08:55
and eight figure businesses. You know, our typical
08:59
kind of average deal size is probably like in
09:02
the mid six figures somewhere. And so, yeah,
09:05
I mean, off the back of that, never do public
09:08
maths. But, you know, we're probably in the average
09:11
payout is probably somewhere in the like. high
09:14
four, low five figures, something like that.
09:16
It varies a lot, obviously. That's obviously
09:18
nothing to sneeze at. It's still not bad, right?
09:21
Yeah, it's not bad at all. So what would your
09:23
advice be if someone wants to sign up for the
09:25
referral program? What would your advice be in
09:27
order to actually start converting those into
09:30
actual clicks that would be helpful for someone?
09:33
Yeah, so I think there's a couple of ways that
09:36
work really well. So obviously, anybody that's
09:38
creating content, especially kind of content
09:40
related to online business, and has some sort
09:44
of eyeballs on what they're doing is generally
09:46
got kind of a really good fit there. We make
09:49
some tools available, you know, things like public
09:52
facing versions of our valuation tool and our
09:54
marketplace and like things that people can embed
09:56
in their site, which works pretty nicely as well.
09:59
And then the other way that... um probably people
10:02
successfully generate stuff for our referral
10:04
program it's just through relationships as well
10:07
you know so like one of the things we always
10:09
try to do is make sure that somebody buys or
10:11
sells a business with us we try and get them
10:13
to sign up for the referral program because typically
10:15
those people are in communities with others who
10:18
are you know building businesses or buying businesses
10:20
um so yeah i'd say it's either like the the wider
10:24
audience route can be good. Or if you just have
10:26
a network where you have like good one -on -one
10:28
relationships with people, then that can kind
10:31
of work really well as well. Once someone sells
10:34
a site, what happens next? Once somebody sells
10:37
a site, so we have a business listed on our marketplace,
10:40
we get an offer accepted, then basically what
10:43
we'll do is the money will kind of go into escrow.
10:46
And then we have a migration team as well. So
10:48
we have a team who all day, every day, they are
10:51
like moving domains. merchant accounts and stuff
10:54
like this. So basically the funds will be held.
10:57
All of the assets will be transferred from the
11:02
seller to the buyer. We do things like financial
11:04
reconciliation. And then, you know, once the
11:07
buyer kind of safely has everything, that's the
11:09
point that the seller gets paid out, basically,
11:11
and hopefully goes on to their next fund project.
11:14
That makes complete sense. I mean, since you're
11:17
seeing so many of these websites, you're seeing
11:19
like all kinds of different types of websites.
11:21
I have to ask you in the age of AI, do you think
11:24
that blogging is completely dying or do you think
11:27
there's still a way that people can build up
11:29
a blog that could make it valuable to possibly
11:32
one day? So, I mean, I think. I think it'll definitely
11:38
continue to change shape probably over the next
11:40
couple of years. You know, I think the kind of
11:44
the 10 blue links on Google is probably going
11:47
to continue to become less prevalent. You know,
11:50
we even see it now, we get a lot of traffic through
11:53
SEO still, but we now get a decent amount of
11:56
traffic through like ChatGPT and other kind of
11:58
AI interfaces as well. You know, it's seen in
12:03
the last week or so, the open AI, you know, kind
12:06
of integrating shopping carts directly into their
12:10
UI. So I don't know exactly what it looks like,
12:13
but I still think in some way, you know, there's
12:17
going to be money in content being generated.
12:19
I just don't know if it looks like traditional
12:21
blogging like it does right now. But I don't
12:25
think that whole kind of like monetization is
12:27
going to die anytime soon, is my guess. Let's
12:30
hope not, because people like me, we rely on
12:32
that. So I'm curious, if someone came to you
12:35
and they're like, hey, I don't even have a website
12:37
yet, but I want to ultimately set it up to have
12:40
an exit strategy. How would you suggest they
12:42
begin? Like, what is the best first step to create
12:46
a site that they intend to sell? Yeah, I think
12:50
when someone's really, really starting, it's
12:54
kind of like just get started somehow and probably
12:57
don't worry too much about that. But I think
12:59
once someone has a little bit of traction and
13:02
is thinking, okay, I do want to kind of build
13:04
this to sell, some things that we normally advise
13:07
people are things like don't be the single point
13:11
of failure in your business. an owner operator
13:16
and you're working 40 hours a week and you're
13:18
kind of doing everything from the content to
13:21
the ads to what have you like that's very difficult
13:24
to sell because the number one question a buyer
13:27
asks when they look at a business is like what
13:29
happens if i take the seller out of this business
13:31
right um so like a real good example you know
13:34
this is maybe a few years old this trend now
13:37
but like there's a big trend of drop shipping
13:38
stores right and some of these stores made money
13:41
hand over fist But really, that was because the
13:45
seller was like an expert at Facebook ads or
13:48
meta ads. And that was kind of like the magic
13:51
in the business. And so for a buyer buying that,
13:53
they're immediately like, okay, well, if I can't
13:55
replicate the success that the seller has with
13:57
the ads, then I have doubts over to what I can
14:01
do with this business. So I think having a team
14:04
in place, having processes documented, they're
14:09
kind of the main things. The funny thing is...
14:11
A lot of the advice to like make your business
14:14
as sellable as possible is actually just the
14:16
advice to like run and grow a really great business.
14:18
Right. There tends to be a lot of parallels between
14:20
those things. Is there a lot of difficulty with
14:23
like trying to transition it from I own the domain
14:26
to I'm giving it to someone else? Like how does
14:28
how does all that as well as how does like moving
14:32
social media accounts and things like that? Because
14:34
I'm sure that once you sell it, you sell all
14:35
the assets that are related to it. How does something
14:37
like that work? I'm very curious. I mean, most
14:41
of it is kind of relatively straightforward.
14:43
Any of like the domain stuff is pretty easy.
14:45
You know, where our team add a lot of value is
14:48
there are some particularities when it comes
14:50
to like transferring certain Amazon accounts
14:52
or, you know, display ad accounts. They all kind
14:55
of have their own way. They like things to be
14:56
done. But we've done so many of them at this
14:59
point that our team know, oh, okay, this one's
15:02
a media buy -in. We have to walk through this
15:03
process or this one's something else. You know,
15:07
there are one or two platforms that have some
15:10
peculiarities, but for the most part, it's relatively
15:12
straightforward with experience. Can you spill
15:15
what the peculiar ones are? I mean, there are
15:19
just some, you know, because most, particularly
15:23
when it comes to blogs, most like display ad
15:25
providers and stuff like that, they totally get
15:29
the sites change hand. They're very, very happy
15:31
to kind of work with us to make it happen. You
15:33
know, there are some platforms that just like,
15:36
to just strictly prohibit transfer of accounts.
15:39
So like one that always causes some pain is Etsy
15:43
because they're like very, very explicit and
15:46
we don't want to do things which is against terms
15:47
of service. So, you know, when it comes to Etsy.
15:51
There are a few different things we do. Like
15:53
we might just like carve out that revenue if
15:55
it's a small part of the business. Sometimes
15:57
buyers are just experienced and they're kind
15:59
of like happy to take the risk. And we just kind
16:01
of be upfront about the risks involved. But yeah,
16:04
it's kind of niche ones like that, which can
16:06
be a bit unusual. Yeah. And I know a lot of people
16:08
in the blogging world are annoyed with Etsy right
16:10
now anyway. So, yeah, I mean, you've shared a
16:14
lot of awesome information, but I'm kind of curious.
16:18
Other than the referral program. Is there anything
16:21
else that you guys offer bloggers that they can
16:23
use in order to kind of boost their business
16:25
or make it better? Because I know your blog has
16:28
a lot of amazing stuff on it. So I'm curious
16:30
about like knowledge bases and tutorials and
16:33
things like that. What all do you have? yeah
16:35
i mean we have we have a lot of content on our
16:38
site um and our director of marketing greg who
16:42
who kind of um who's responsible for that i mean
16:45
he's an seo nerd a niche site nerd so there's
16:48
like lots and lots of content to do with that
16:50
on there um so i definitely say check that out
16:53
and you can filter our blog kind of specifically
16:55
to content about blogging and stuff like that
16:58
um so that would probably be the first port of
17:00
call yeah In your list of all the niches that
17:03
you've been working with, what are the most profitable
17:05
ones you're seeing right now? I mean, you know,
17:10
I think there are certain niches that always
17:13
kind of do well and they are like the stereotypical
17:16
ones that everybody says, right? Kind of like
17:18
the ones that address a pain rather than a want.
17:21
Anything to do with like babies and pets always
17:24
do well. Supplements always seem to do well.
17:27
Um, you know, I think on the flip side, the ones
17:30
which are tougher are kind of businesses, particularly
17:33
e -commerce to do with apparel. Um, anything
17:36
which like has a concrete obsolete date, like
17:39
electronics, those things can be kind of tough.
17:42
Um, but yeah, I mean, generalizing a little bit,
17:44
but that's kind of that. And I wouldn't even
17:46
say that's like a right now thing. That's just
17:48
kind of what we see in perpetuity a little bit.
17:51
Yeah, that makes sense, because I know that a
17:52
lot of people say that, like, if you start a
17:54
health and wellness blog, no matter what year
17:56
you start it, people are always going to be searching.
17:59
So. So, yeah. So out of all the things that you
18:02
guys have sold, what is the biggest and wildest
18:04
deal you've done? I know you probably can't share
18:06
specifics on names and that's totally fine, but
18:08
I have to know. The biggest and wildest. I mean,
18:12
I think we've done a couple of eight figure deals.
18:16
They are they're always interesting on a couple
18:18
of fronts. I mean, you know. On the one hand,
18:21
obviously, our fee is big on an eight -figure
18:24
deal, so that's nice. And obviously, the seller
18:26
gets paid a... I mean, plenty of our sellers
18:29
get life -changing money, but obviously, an eight
18:30
-figure amount is a pretty insane amount of money.
18:33
I think what's most interesting with deals that
18:35
size is the length and the depth of the due diligence
18:40
period. So I'm thinking of one... Um, that we
18:43
closed kind of towards the end of, of 2023, that
18:46
was probably like the best part of nine months
18:49
in due diligence. Um, and, and, you know, like
18:52
that's, it's a rollercoaster and an emotional
18:54
rollercoaster for the seller as well, as you
18:55
can imagine. And so, um, yeah, that's, that's
18:58
probably the most interesting part. That makes
19:00
a lot of sense. So that, that kind of begs the
19:02
question, if it took about nine months for a
19:04
deal of that size. What does your typical time
19:08
frame usually look like for someone that has
19:11
a much smaller, like your 2K a month site? Yeah,
19:14
yeah, that's a great question. So like a good
19:17
amount of those smaller deals, I mean, they will
19:20
often have like no exclusive due diligence period.
19:23
So, you know, we will kind of list it on the
19:25
marketplace. And then we operate a process where
19:28
like buyers have to have verified their ID and
19:30
that they have the appropriate amount of liquidity
19:32
to view a listing. And there'll be multiple buyers
19:35
like who fulfill that criteria, who will be looking
19:38
at the listing at the same time and doing their
19:40
due diligence. And, you know, sometimes those
19:43
sell in days or in a couple of weeks. Buyer just
19:47
kind of sends us the cash and we move straight
19:49
to migration. I think once you get maybe now
19:52
into the mid six figure range and up into the
19:55
seven figure range, most of those deals are going
19:58
to have some period of exclusive due diligence
20:00
where the seller kind of like effectively takes
20:03
the business off the market and commits to one
20:05
buyer. They kind of agree an offer. And like
20:09
average is probably 30 to 45 days in that kind
20:13
of exclusive period. How often do you have people
20:16
that are like, oh, no, I don't I changed my mind.
20:18
I don't want to sell it. Well, sometimes, yeah.
20:22
And to be honest, they're always the... It's
20:26
one thing if we go into exclusive due diligence
20:28
and a buyer finds something they don't like and
20:30
changes their mind. But when the buyer is hot
20:32
for the deal and it's the seller that changes
20:34
their mind, it's always a bit like, oh, I wish
20:36
we kind of figured this out before we got to
20:38
this stage. It's relatively rare. But I think
20:43
where sellers maybe... pull out the deal is uh
20:48
when they don't have the trust with a buyer right
20:50
and i think like you know it's you would think
20:52
that like oh seller gets the amount of money
20:54
they want and that's it they don't care who they
20:56
sell it to but actually like that couldn't be
20:58
further from the truth and you know for for a
21:00
lot of sellers this business is their baby that
21:03
they've worked on for like multiple years and
21:05
like they really really care about the person
21:07
that's being handed over to so like normally
21:10
when it's the seller that pulls out of the deal
21:11
it's typically because like something has gone
21:13
wrong in the relationship part OK, that actually
21:16
makes a lot of sense. So with with the fact that,
21:19
you know, you said some of this is life changing
21:20
money and everybody's trying to make money from
21:23
what they're doing. Do you find that it's mostly
21:25
like retired age people that are ready to get
21:28
rid of their sites or is it just runs the gamut
21:31
of all ages? Yeah, no, I'd say definitely all
21:35
ages. And, you know, I know in kind of like offline
21:38
businesses, there's the silver tsunami of retirees
21:42
looking to exit businesses. But I would say that's
21:44
kind of less relevant in the kind of strictly
21:47
online business realm. You know, normally people
21:50
are, I think there's a couple of reasons why
21:52
people sell businesses like this. And it's obviously
21:54
a question that buyers ask a lot. Like if the
21:56
business is so good, why do you want to sell
21:58
it? And I think there's a couple of things. You
22:01
know, I think one is. People just kind of like
22:03
to stair step up into bigger and bigger projects
22:05
and they might build an e -com site or a small
22:08
blog or something like that. And that like release
22:11
of capital all at one time can be exactly what
22:13
they need to kind of take that next step into
22:15
the next thing. So I think that's part of it.
22:18
And then probably like the other most common
22:20
reason is some version of like, either they've
22:22
just taken the business as far as they think
22:24
they can personally, or they're just kind of
22:26
burnt out of the business or, you know, tired
22:29
of it. And some of the best deals we've done
22:31
are like where the seller, let's say the seller
22:34
is a Facebook ads expert to kind of go back to
22:37
my example. And they've like, they think they've
22:39
tapped the business out. Like this business can't
22:41
be operating any better on paid ads than it is
22:44
at the moment. So they think they're getting
22:46
a great deal, but maybe they've like built a
22:48
decent sized email list, but done nothing with
22:51
it. And maybe the buyer is an email marketing
22:53
expert. And so they think they're like getting
22:55
a nugget of gold because they're like, oh, this
22:57
guy hasn't even scratched the surface of the
22:59
email list. So I think it's just like, it's kind
23:02
of those things. It's yeah. Cause sometimes someone's
23:05
skillset can kind of think they've taken it as
23:07
far as it can, but there's more in there for
23:09
someone else. Well, you've actually mentioned
23:11
two different assets. You've mentioned Facebook
23:13
ads and you've mentioned an email list. How many
23:15
assets would you recommend that someone has in
23:17
order to make their website more profitable?
23:19
Like, do they need to be on all the social medias?
23:21
Do they need to be on TikTok and the YouTube
23:23
and the podcasts and all the things? What do
23:26
you think about that? So I think it's a balance
23:30
with anything, which is if you kind of run off
23:33
in 100 different directions, then it's kind of
23:36
tough to excel at anything. But again, to kind
23:39
of tie this back to your what does blogging kind
23:42
of look like in the future question, I think
23:44
now more than ever, any kind of owned asset you
23:47
have is more valuable than ever. So I do think
23:50
email list is probably still the most important.
23:55
Because you obviously, you know, they say that
23:57
the gold is in the list, right? And I think with
23:59
good reason. So I think buyers like to see that.
24:03
And then, you know, you don't necessarily have
24:05
to be crazy active on all of the social platforms.
24:09
But I think if you can kind of in a low maintenance
24:11
way, just start to build an audience on some
24:14
of them, then it only helps. You know, it's probably
24:16
not as impactful as the email list, but like
24:18
it all helps at the moment. So do you... I mean,
24:22
you mentioned that the email list is kind of
24:24
important. If someone was starting their email
24:26
list, finally, because I'm definitely in this
24:28
boat. I've been blogging since 2009 and I still
24:31
don't have an email list. What would you recommend
24:33
to a person who is just starting their email
24:35
list that they've already had their website forever
24:37
and they want to begin it? Do you have any advice
24:40
that you can share on that? I mean, I think the
24:42
advice would be just to build it. I don't think
24:46
just having it is obviously better than not having
24:49
it. And you could even having it running on relatively
24:52
on a maintenance mode where maybe it doesn't
24:54
have to be emailed to every day. And you probably
24:57
want some sort of touch points to kind of keep
25:00
it. active. And so particularly when it comes
25:03
to discussing with a potential buyer, they can
25:04
see that it's not just like a stale list that
25:06
was built several years ago. But in a way, when
25:09
it comes to selling, you maybe don't want the
25:11
list to be completely tapped out because that's
25:13
an opportunity for a buyer then to kind of do
25:16
something with it. So with an email list, I imagine
25:20
the asset goes to the buyer, like that list.
25:26
I don't know if this question is going to make
25:27
sense, so please humor me. Does the person who
25:31
sells that list still gain access to those names
25:34
or are they expected to just once you've sold
25:37
it, you let it go, man? Yeah, definitely the
25:41
latter. They're expected to kind of like hand
25:43
it over and then they're kind of done with it.
25:46
And, you know, a typical non -compete that a
25:49
seller agrees to when they sell a business through
25:52
us is three years. And I think like any use of
25:55
the list would for sure be a breach of that kind
25:58
of non -compete agreement. OK, so that's interesting
26:00
to note. So when someone sells their website,
26:02
they're not supposed to basically start in that
26:04
same niche for three years. Yeah, that's right.
26:06
What if they already have other assets in that
26:09
niche? Like, does that then how does that work?
26:13
Yeah. So there's a couple of ways that we can
26:15
go about it. You know, one is either we can kind
26:17
of roll it up into one big listing if the seller's
26:20
open to doing that. You know, if not, then what
26:23
they have to do is just kind of be upfront with
26:25
that about potential buyers. And then it will
26:27
be down to like whether it's kind of buyers comfort
26:30
levels with that. And we do do deals sometimes
26:32
where. The the non -compete will be like slightly
26:36
elaborated to like carve out specific things
26:38
and like can do this, can't do this. So, yeah,
26:42
that can happen. OK, yeah, I was curious because
26:45
I have a friend. She just sold a keto blog and
26:47
now she's selling a yoga blog. But they're both
26:49
technically speaking in the health and wellness
26:51
space. So I was curious if like those would trigger
26:54
your non -compete or not. I mean, it's one of
26:59
those things that's open to interpretation. And
27:02
really, it comes down to what the buyer is or
27:04
isn't comfortable with. And I think to avoid
27:07
surprises for either party in the future, it's
27:10
just best to be upfront between each other about
27:12
that. And then buyers can say, yep, I'm comfortable
27:15
with that. Or no, I'm not. And they can do specific
27:17
carve outs or whatever. So yeah, basically, it
27:20
sounds like with all things selling, transparency
27:23
is key. A hundred percent. And yeah, I mean,
27:27
nothing tanks a deal faster than like one side
27:29
or the other thinking that the deal is all based
27:32
on trust, right? Well, it's based on contracts,
27:34
but when it comes to closing the deal is like
27:36
trust is a huge factor. And like, you know, a
27:39
thing on that, when it comes to like due diligence,
27:42
obviously buyers are poking the business and
27:45
kind of trying to see if everything is on the
27:47
level. And sellers initial. kind of uh thought
27:52
is to like you know let's say there is something
27:54
wrong in the business or they tried something
27:56
that didn't work sometimes their like initial
27:59
reaction is to try and cover that up or to like
28:01
not be forthcoming with it and it's actually
28:03
like the exact opposite of what you want to do
28:05
because like buyers are looking for that stuff
28:07
and if a seller says like oh i tried this but
28:10
it didn't work or actually there's this specific
28:11
problem with the site it can be a huge trust
28:14
building moment and more often than not it actually
28:16
like helps the deal rather than hinders it So
28:19
in other words, let's not hide the gaps that
28:21
are in the wall. Let's tell them they were there.
28:23
A hundred percent. Yeah. I like it. I like it
28:26
a lot. Well, I mean, you've shared a lot of amazing
28:29
knowledge with me. I'm very curious, though.
28:32
You mentioned that some people, they're selling
28:34
their sites because they're wanting to get the
28:36
capital to start something else. Do you have
28:39
a lot of repeat sellers and buyers from that
28:41
perspective? Yeah, we do both. So for sure, we
28:47
have a good amount of people who will sell something
28:49
and then either start something else and sell
28:52
it or maybe buy something else and build it up
28:54
and sell it. We've got a listing on our marketplace
28:57
at the moment. I forget the, I'm going to screw
29:00
the numbers up a little bit, but this is directionally
29:02
true that like the guy bought it from us two
29:05
years ago or so for like 150, 200K and it's on
29:08
the market now for $1 .7 million. Um, so we,
29:12
like, we, I mean, we love seeing stuff like that,
29:14
obviously, when, uh, when we see buyer success
29:16
stories like that, we do have sellers that kind
29:18
of do that or flip. Um, and then with buyers
29:22
as well, I mean, kind of the same thing, uh,
29:24
but we also have, there's a lot more kind of,
29:27
uh, professional institutional money in the space
29:29
now. So we will often have the same, um, kind
29:32
of institutional buyer that will buy several
29:34
businesses from us over a period of time. So
29:36
yeah, we do, we see repeat on both sides. Yeah.
29:39
Well, I mean, something you mentioned kind of
29:41
triggered a question in me. So do you have mainly
29:44
like bigger businesses or is it more individuals
29:47
that are trying to sell their sites? I think
29:50
the majority of sellers are still individuals
29:53
and buyers is a bit more of a mix these days.
29:58
You know, we still do have plenty of. individuals,
30:01
whether it's kind of like high net worth people
30:03
buying a side hustle or wanting to quit the nine
30:05
to five, like that's still definitely a part
30:07
of our business. But yeah, particularly when
30:10
it comes to the higher end now, kind of, you
30:12
know, rolling up a few of these businesses or
30:14
buying them for the long term has kind of professionalized
30:17
a lot. And we do have a lot of like institutional
30:19
investor money buying these businesses these
30:22
days. Yeah. Before we got on the call, I was
30:24
reading an article about digital real estate
30:27
and how people are purchasing websites so that
30:29
they can build like a portfolio of sites that
30:32
they're making money in all these different ways.
30:34
Do you think that this is something that is still
30:37
going to be around for a while, that people can
30:39
create their own portfolio of sites? I think
30:42
so. We see it on websites. We see it on e -commerce
30:46
businesses. So, yeah, I mean, I still think if
30:50
you have the skill set to kind of buy these and
30:53
do something with them, then that can be a really
30:56
good way to kind of run a portfolio. And then,
30:59
you know, when a portfolio gets to a certain
31:02
size, then potentially there's a higher multiple
31:05
that could be applied for that when it comes
31:06
to exiting as well. So, yeah, I think that probably
31:09
is around to stay. With exiting, do people sell
31:13
like a package of websites or do they usually
31:16
typically like put them one at a time? It really
31:20
depends. So we definitely sell site packages.
31:24
And particularly if they're in same similar niches,
31:27
that can make a lot of sense. And if they're
31:30
a bit more unrelated, then depending on size,
31:34
we might split them up. Yeah, it depends, but
31:36
any and all of the above. Well, we'll definitely
31:39
be linking the valuation tool that you mentioned
31:41
in the show notes and any other links that you
31:44
can think of. We'll talk about that after the
31:46
call and let me know what you think I should
31:47
link to for people to learn more. But before
31:51
I let you go, is there any bit of advice that
31:53
you haven't shared yet that I didn't ask about
31:55
that you think that we should really make sure
31:57
people are hearing? I think the... We talked
32:04
about it a little bit, but I think the probably
32:06
the main thing is that, you know, you really
32:09
can build a business to sell. And it might mean
32:12
that you do some things differently than if you
32:14
didn't have that in mind. And we're super happy
32:17
to talk to people, even if they're like relatively
32:19
early stage in their journey of building. And
32:23
so, yeah, like you say, be great to link to our
32:25
valuation tool. And if anybody off the back of
32:28
that. would like to talk to one of our team about
32:30
um you know specifics of things they could be
32:32
doing even if they're two three years out from
32:35
exiting they're like very happy to facilitate
32:37
that and we kind of love having those conversations
32:39
well in order to have those conversations where
32:42
can people find you online yeah so obviously
32:44
empireflippers .com is the main place uh i am
32:47
mostly active on linkedin so maybe we could like
32:49
link to there as well um and uh yeah they're
32:53
the main places Well, I appreciate all the things
32:56
that you've shared here today. Everything that
32:58
you shared kind of makes me want to start another
33:00
website and get it ready to sell. So I hope that
33:03
people will listen to this and be inspired at
33:05
the possibilities. Because, I mean, let's face
33:06
it, even though Google is causing a bunch of
33:10
havoc, there's still so many opportunities, like
33:12
you said, in content. So, Andy, thank you for
33:15
being here and chatting with me. Pleasure. I
33:17
enjoyed it a lot. Thanks, Ashley. Well, my bloggy
33:22
friends, I hope you enjoyed all the insights
33:24
our guests had to share with you. To get the
33:26
show notes for this and all episodes, go over
33:28
to famousashleygrant .com backslash podcast.
33:31
And until next time, may your page views be high
33:33
and your bounce rate be low.
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