Episode 0Feb 27, 2026· 58:20
How to Land Brand Sponsorships at Any Follower Count with Justin Moore
About this episode
What if you could pitch a brand sponsorship deal today, even with only a few hundred followers? In this episode, sponsorship coach and Creator Wizard founder Justin Moore breaks down exactly how creators, podcasters, newsletter writers, and entrepreneurs of all sizes can start landing paid brand partnerships — no massive audience required.
Justin has personally closed over 600 brand deals, made more than $5 million…
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Full transcript
00:09
What's up, my bloggy friends? Famous Ashley Grant
00:11
here, and I'm so excited about today's guest
00:13
because if you have ever wanted to land brand
00:16
sponsorships for your content but had no idea
00:18
where to start, this episode is for you. Joining
00:21
me today is Justin Moore, sponsorship coach and
00:23
founder of Creator Wizard, and he's also the
00:25
author of the book. sponsor magnet. Justin has
00:28
been a full -time creator for over eight years
00:30
alongside his wife, April, and has personally
00:32
made over $5 million. Yeah, you heard that right.
00:35
$5 million working with brands. He also ran an
00:39
influencer marketing agency for more than seven
00:41
years. So that means he has a rare inside look
00:44
at exactly how brands decide who to partner with
00:47
and why they pass on everyone else. His mission
00:50
is to help creators big and small land 1 million
00:53
paid brand partnerships by 2032. I hope you guys
00:56
enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed it. I
00:58
had a blast recording this. He is such an awesome
01:01
guy. Let's get into it. So welcome to the show,
01:09
Justin. I'm crazy stoked you're here, if you
01:11
can't tell already. I just did your, it was the
01:14
December cohort of all the things. How is it
01:19
that you got into this space? I mean, I know
01:21
I've heard the story before, but for people who
01:23
don't know, how on earth did you become a sponsorship
01:25
coach? My goodness. So I owe all credit to my
01:29
wife, actually. So my wife, April, started a
01:32
YouTube channel in 2009. And I was in medical
01:36
devices at this time, completely unrelated to
01:39
social media, creator economy. And she just started
01:44
making videos around. beauty and skincare. And
01:47
she had a personal interest in that didn't know
01:49
anyone in her real life that was into that kind
01:50
of thing. And so I just started making videos
01:52
for fun. Remember, you got to remember back in
01:54
2009, you really couldn't make money on YouTube
01:58
in particular, like they the partner program
02:00
was just starting, but it was application only,
02:02
like it wasn't like it is now, where you could
02:04
meet just a certain threshold, and then you'd
02:06
get in. And she in fact, in fact, she got rejected
02:09
three times for the partner program before she
02:11
got in. So it very much was like a bumpy start.
02:13
But what happened was brands started reaching
02:16
out pretty quickly, but not offering to pay her.
02:20
It was, Hey, we'll give you free stuff. Right.
02:22
And we were in our early twenties at the time.
02:24
We had no money. We were living in a studio apartment
02:26
and free stuff to us was like, let's go, you
02:29
know, like, well to her, because I was like,
02:31
I mean, makeup is expensive. So like she was
02:33
getting a bunch of free makeup. That's awesome.
02:34
Let's go. Right. And so, um, and that was the
02:37
way it was for years, actually. It wasn't like
02:39
we wised up after like a, uh, you know, one or
02:42
two free products. It was like, For years, yeah,
02:44
send over the free stuff, make a video about
02:46
it, this type of thing. And so what happened
02:48
was I decided to go back to school to get my
02:50
MBA at night after work. And I started taking
02:52
all these classes around advertising and negotiation
02:55
and marketing. And kind of the gears started
02:59
turning. I would see hundreds of comments on
03:01
all of April's posts saying, oh, April, thanks
03:04
so much for telling me about this part. I just
03:06
went to the store and got it. Or I went to their
03:07
website and picked it up. Thank you. And I came
03:10
home and I told April one time, I was like. honey,
03:13
I think you're getting the short end of the stick
03:14
here. Like a free $30 hair curler is not adequate
03:17
compensation for the value you're providing to
03:20
these brands. And so I said, the next time a
03:22
brand wants to work with you, ask them if they
03:24
have a budget to collaborate. And she's like,
03:27
there's no way anyone's going to pay me money
03:29
for this. And I was like, just give it a shot.
03:31
So sure enough, next brand said, you know, asked
03:33
to collaborate. Hey, do you have a budget? They
03:35
said, oh yeah, if you could include us in two
03:37
YouTube videos a month, we will pay you $700
03:39
monthly. And we were like, mind blown explosion.
03:44
Because like $700 was like a massive chunk of
03:47
our rent at the time. And we were thinking to
03:48
ourselves, how can we find 10 more brands just
03:50
like this? Right. And so fast forward over the
03:53
next 15 plus years, we've done close to 600 sponsorships
03:58
personally now made over $5 million doing it.
04:01
And so brand partnerships was always like a really
04:03
big part of our revenue stream. But In 2015,
04:08
I was like, you know, I think I might be able
04:09
to get these deals for other creators, not just
04:11
for ourselves. And so that led me to I launched
04:15
a influencer marketing agency, paid out millions
04:17
of dollars to other creators. And so I had this
04:20
kind of perspective of both sides were been in
04:22
the trenches for many years doing deals, ran
04:24
the agency, been in the boardrooms with these
04:26
big brands now where they're spending millions
04:27
of dollars now. And so about six years ago, I
04:31
decided to just start making some YouTube videos
04:34
about this. How do you like? behave on a phone
04:37
call with a brand how do you how do you know
04:39
how much charge a brand how do you pitch a brand
04:41
what do you say when you try to get on their
04:43
radar and so this ultimately led me down the
04:45
road of of coaching other creators um and for
04:49
a very very interesting model we could talk about
04:51
it but this this very surprising business uh
04:53
where i'm doing the sponsorship coaching was
04:55
born that's so insane because it's like you created
04:59
something from nothing And that's obviously my
05:02
favorite part about it because I am a content
05:04
creator myself. I started dabbling in 2007 when
05:07
I guess you'd call it pro in 2011 in the sense
05:10
that I was finally getting paid. And then in
05:13
2014, ghostwriting actually landed in my lap.
05:16
And then I was like, oh, wait a minute. Now I'm
05:18
doing it full time, but I'm not getting any credit,
05:20
but I'll take their cash. And so the reason I
05:23
was excited to learn more about the sponsorships
05:25
is now that I'm trying to step back into the
05:27
spotlight and put my own name on things. I'm
05:29
like, OK, how do I get that? How do I get what
05:31
you got? So the person who's listening to this,
05:33
who's like, OK, wait, I'm a small brand, Justin.
05:35
Like, OK, five million dollars. Good for you.
05:38
How the hell do I get started? What would you
05:40
say to them? It's a great question. And I think
05:43
one of the biggest learnings having started coaching
05:46
over the last number of years is sometimes you
05:49
have the trap of expertise, right? You've been
05:52
doing something for so long that it's like, it's
05:54
kind of hard to remember what it was like in
05:56
the very beginning. But I've been living in this,
05:58
working with creators day in and day out who
06:00
are at that. uh place that you're mentioning
06:02
kind of in the early stages let's say less than
06:05
a thousand you know subscribers followers audience
06:07
size whatever um and so i developed this this
06:11
uh framework that i call the sponsorship continuum
06:13
that i think would be helpful to kind of chat
06:15
through right here because i think a lot of people
06:17
look at sponsorships as um very simplistic it's
06:22
like okay a brand deal is when a brand pays me
06:25
to talk about them on my platform, on my newsletter,
06:28
on my podcast, on my social media, whatever.
06:31
And that's the only way in which I could ever
06:32
get sponsored. And then they don't even get out
06:36
the front door because they think, well, I don't
06:38
have enough followers to justify a brand wanting
06:41
to invest in me to talk about them, right? And
06:43
so they just say, okay, well, I guess sponsorships
06:45
are for people. who are larger or I need to get
06:48
to 10 ,000 followers or maybe some brand told
06:50
you one time, oh, we have to have a certain audience
06:52
size for us to collaborate with you. And so you
06:54
felt like, well, I guess, I guess that's what
06:55
everyone brand thinks. And so I, I guess I'll
06:58
just have to wait. And that is absolute BS. That's
07:02
not true at all. But you have to look at it from
07:05
the brand's perspective. Yeah. If you reached
07:07
out now with, you know, a couple hundred followers
07:10
or a couple hundred views or downloads on average
07:12
for your posts on your videos or podcasts. Think
07:15
about it from the brand's perspective. Like it's
07:17
probably not going to move the needle for them
07:18
if you were to talk about them on your posts.
07:20
Right. And so that's not what you should pitch
07:22
them. Right. And so in the early stages, it's
07:26
a much more productive approach to do an analysis
07:30
of the brand's social presence. So I'm going
07:33
to see, OK, are they do they have a podcast?
07:35
Are they on social media? How often are they
07:38
posting? Does the content suck, right? Are they
07:41
running ads or did they have a blog? Did they
07:44
have a newsletter? So you're kind of doing this
07:46
analysis to see how they're thinking about content
07:49
generally to attract customers. And so when you
07:53
reach out to them, you say, hey, love your brand,
07:56
but I just did this comprehensive audit of like
07:59
kind of how you're appearing and showing up on
08:01
social media. I think you could be telling your
08:03
brand story in a more compelling way. I would
08:05
actually love to create some content for you.
08:08
that you can use on autopilot and repurpose on
08:11
your platform, what's called owned and operated
08:13
platforms on your social media for your paid
08:15
advertising to help you stand out. And oh, by
08:20
the way, go take a look at my website or my podcast
08:24
or my YouTube channel. That's my portfolio. So
08:27
what you're pitching is different. And so this
08:30
is sometimes called UGC or user generated content.
08:33
Well, you're actually. creating content for the
08:35
brand to repurpose. So that's at the very beginning
08:37
of the continuum, right? Where you're small and
08:39
you're just starting out. You're building up
08:40
this kind of portfolio to show that you can do
08:43
good work for brands, right? You can get some
08:45
testimonials. You can get some case studies under
08:46
your belt. Then let's say you grow a little bit,
08:49
Ashley, right? You're now getting thousands.
08:51
You have a couple thousand people in your audience
08:54
or views on your videos or whatever. What you're
08:57
pitching to the brand is probably a combination
08:58
now of... content for them to use. Maybe you're
09:02
doing, you're repurposing that or syndicating
09:04
that on your platforms now because that starts
09:06
becoming meaningful. Maybe you're doing even
09:08
a little bit of consulting for them now where
09:10
you're advising them on what their strategy should
09:12
be. And then now let's say you really grow significantly.
09:16
You're on the far end of the continuum where
09:19
you're crushing it. You're getting tens of thousands,
09:21
hundreds of thousands of views. Yeah. The thrust
09:23
of what you can propose or pitch to a brand is
09:26
now I'm going to talk about you on my platforms
09:27
because that's going to be really move the needle
09:28
for you. And so the reason that I share this
09:33
continuum idea is it's very liberating, I hope,
09:35
to anyone listening or watching, which is that
09:37
like there's no arbitrary threshold here of like
09:39
I need to reach this certain milestone before
09:41
I can have the permission to reach out to a brand.
09:45
And the other really beautiful thing is that
09:47
the more narrow your niches. the less, you know,
09:51
audience size you need to have because there's
09:53
just less people out there to, you know, for
09:55
these brands in these niche industries to collaborate.
09:58
And I can share some stories on that front. But
09:59
like generally, I just think it's this it's this
10:02
idea that like there is no arbitrary following
10:05
that you need to hit. I think that's definitely
10:07
going to make a lot of people feel better. I
10:09
know it makes me feel better. I remember. a brand
10:11
very early on. They're like, no, we won't even
10:14
talk to you unless you have 10 ,000 followers.
10:16
And I remember I bought this course to try to
10:18
learn how to get a bunch of followers. And I
10:20
actually built my Facebook page to 12 ,000 followers,
10:22
but it still wasn't aligned with who I wanted
10:25
to pitch. And so it was like, well, what good
10:27
did that do me? I just kind of wasted my time
10:29
and energy. But it sounds like what you're saying
10:32
is you're not just pitching someone like, hey,
10:35
give me money because I love you. You're pitching
10:37
a media partnership. Does that sound about right?
10:42
Yes, and really what you're pitching is to help
10:47
them accomplish a business outcome. That, at
10:49
the end of the day, is really the only reason
10:52
that a brand would want to hire you. And I'm
10:53
glad we've arrived at this because there's a
10:55
very important concept that I think we should
10:57
discuss that will help you finally get these
11:01
brands to open their wallets, which is the phrasing
11:05
of a lot of outreach that... people you know
11:07
creators entrepreneurs try to do when they reach
11:08
out to a brand or an enterprise is they say uh
11:12
hey look at me i'm awesome i've got all these
11:15
i've got this cool web series or i've got this
11:16
podcast or i've got this following um will you
11:20
i think your brand would be a great fit i've
11:22
used it for three years uh let's collaborate
11:25
you know this idea um And that is an absolutely
11:29
awful pitch. And you know how I know that that's
11:31
an awful pitch? It's because that's what we did.
11:33
That's exactly what we did starting out, right?
11:35
And we heard crickets. Until again, I started
11:38
taking these classes and we got some reps and
11:39
we understood that brands don't have random piles
11:42
of money laying around to sponsor people that
11:45
reach out to them. They just simply don't. But
11:47
they do have big piles of money laying around
11:50
that have been already allocated for something
11:52
called their internal initiatives. their budgets
11:56
that they've allocated to accomplish those business
11:59
objectives. And so your job, when you do this
12:03
type of research that I teach, is to try to infer
12:06
what's important to them. You can do this in
12:08
a lot of ways. You see what campaigns they're
12:09
running. You look at the ads they're running.
12:12
You see what types of campaigns they were running
12:14
last year. You know, if we're trying to lock
12:16
down a summer campaign right now, what were they
12:18
running last summer? They're probably going to
12:19
run that campaign, another 4th of July campaign,
12:22
probably going to run that again. And so if you
12:24
lead with what's important to them, then all
12:28
of a sudden they say, oh, okay, yeah, Ashley
12:31
seems like she's going to help us drive more
12:33
sales for our 4th of July campaign. Let's push.
12:37
Let's slide 10K of that 100K summer budget over
12:42
to Ashley because she's going to help us, you
12:44
know, move the needle on that campaign. And so
12:46
this is a really, really important concept to
12:48
understand is that you have to lead with what's
12:50
important to them. What's in it for them? It's
12:52
not about you. Yeah. It's funny you say that
12:55
because I was actually working for a client and
12:56
they said that every single thing they do whenever
12:59
they're talking to their customers is they have
13:01
the with them technique. What's in it for me?
13:03
And so they push that down our throats like the
13:06
whole time. And I get that now and it makes complete
13:08
sense. But I have to tell you, I haven't told
13:10
anybody this. Our little secret, you know, between
13:12
us and everybody listening. I after I did your
13:15
cohort, I actually went and. that, you know what,
13:19
I'm ballsy. I've got some followers. I think
13:21
I could do this. And I pitched a brand and Lord
13:24
have mercy, it was awful. I will not say what
13:27
the brand was, but they literally were like,
13:29
we see no return on investment of any value to
13:32
do this. Like, what would you do for us that
13:35
would actually move the deal? And so it's interesting
13:37
you saying that because I was just like, yeah,
13:40
I need to go back and reread the book and go
13:43
through all the videos. First of all, I want
13:48
to compliment you though, because you did a lot
13:50
more than what a lot of people do. A lot of people
13:52
go through the 10K Brand Deal Challenge, this
13:54
live workshop that I do, and they don't do anything.
13:56
They don't do what you did. And so just the fact
13:58
that you got, that you sent it and they responded,
14:01
there's way more than most people get. So I just
14:03
want to give you your props here. Well, and we
14:04
had a video call too. And so it was good feedback.
14:07
Like I recorded it and I was like really listening
14:09
to it. What's funny is I did get an affiliate
14:11
partnership with them. So I think that's a win
14:13
because now I can possibly show them. No, really,
14:16
I know what I'm doing. Right, right. So in fact,
14:20
let's actually jam on that if you're okay with
14:22
it. Let's say you do land an affiliate partnership.
14:25
How can you translate that into something where
14:27
they're like, okay, not only will we pay you
14:29
if you get us, you know, income, but we'll also
14:31
pay you to go get said income. Yeah, so this
14:35
is a very common complaint that I hear from people,
14:38
which is like they did what you just did. They
14:41
pitched the brand and the brand says, yeah, sounds
14:43
great. Drive us sales and we'll send you 20 %
14:46
every time you commission, every time you generate
14:47
a sale. And like, again, think about it from
14:51
the brand's perspective. I do this a lot. Let's
14:53
put our hat on, pretend we're the brand. This
14:55
is the ideal scenario for them. They have this
14:57
like army of evangelists loudly championing them
15:00
for free. They have to expend no money until
15:03
you generate a sale. Meanwhile, you are expending
15:06
social capital to... make this recommendation,
15:10
generate content containing the promotion for
15:12
the affiliate. And so it's a non -trivial exercise
15:15
for you. So I just want to like acknowledge that
15:16
piece of it. And so like, yeah, of course the
15:19
brand is going to be like, you know, want that
15:21
type of setup, but there's a lot of things that
15:23
the brand is not afforded in an affiliate relationship.
15:27
Largely, they are not privy to how you are ultimately
15:30
going to discuss their brand. So you may not
15:33
be hitting the key messaging of a particular
15:35
seasonal promotion that they're running. They're
15:38
not able to probably get that content to repurpose,
15:40
put on their blog, put on their social media,
15:43
use for paid advertising. And so that would be
15:45
the line of conversation that I would have in
15:47
that scenario. I would say, oh, yeah, sure. I'd
15:49
love to check out your affiliate program. Out
15:51
of curiosity, do your affiliates also grant you
15:54
the rights to repurpose their content for paid
15:56
advertising? Because that's something that I
15:57
specialize in. Let me know if you'd like me to
16:00
send over a few investment options for what that
16:02
might look like. Now, all of a sudden, they're
16:03
thinking, yeah, actually, no, we don't get the
16:06
rights to that content. And actually, most of
16:08
the time that our affiliates talk about us, the
16:10
content is really not that good or it's not that
16:12
prominent because they're not really that incentivized
16:14
to really do a dedicated email blast about it
16:17
or whatever. Right. And so you say and you say
16:21
when there is a flat compensation component to
16:24
this deal, you get more creative. participation
16:28
in this. Like I'm going to give you a concept
16:30
for you to approve before I produce this. I'll
16:33
give you a draft of the content to review before
16:35
it goes live to ensure that everything's accurate.
16:38
Because again, we want to maximize the repurposability
16:40
of this asset. So you can get sound bites if
16:42
it's a video or audiogram, if it's a podcast,
16:44
whatever. And so again, this is the conversation
16:46
that you have. with this advertiser when they
16:49
try to hit you with that. One other anecdote
16:51
I want to share. So I did an interview on my
16:54
podcast called the Sponsor Magnet Podcast with
16:56
an affiliate marketing manager at a brand. And
16:58
she shared a story about a campaign that they
17:03
ran. They were allotted a $10 ,000 budget, flat
17:06
budget for a promotion, a specific promotion
17:10
that they were running one month. And the very
17:12
first place that they turned to recruit partners
17:15
for this flat. campaign was their affiliate pool
17:18
because they they thought like why wouldn't we
17:22
just go to our top affiliates they're already
17:24
users they're already bought in they know everything
17:26
about the tool we don't have to educate someone
17:28
cold coming in off the street about the value
17:30
of the tool who's never used it all that let's
17:32
just go and like you know hire our our people
17:36
that are already doing great work for us and
17:38
so uh all this to say like i do think that um
17:41
in in your situation that you shared for example
17:43
or just generally like it is a good practice
17:45
to like Get on the radar of these brands by starting
17:48
to talk about them, especially if you're already
17:50
recommending their tool organically. That can
17:52
be a good tactic to start getting in front of
17:55
them and helping them understand why they would
17:56
want to hire you on larger campaigns. Well, then
18:00
it sounds like if you actually are starting to
18:02
drive some numbers to them, you can use that
18:04
as leverage to be like, no, this is why we need
18:06
to sit down and have a meeting. Well, the trick,
18:08
though, is that you have to convince them that
18:11
you're going to be doing something new or different
18:13
for them. OK. On the, on the subsequent campaign,
18:16
because otherwise they're just gonna be like,
18:17
no, let's just keep the same setup. Like we have,
18:19
right? Like this is, this gravy train is great
18:22
for us. Like just keep recommending us. And so
18:24
this is the critical thing is that to get yourself
18:27
out of that precedent of them only looking at
18:30
you as an affiliate, you have to suggest other
18:32
things. Okay. Oh, I like that. That sounds so
18:35
good. I mean, and you make it sound so simple,
18:37
but, but I'm, but obviously it's thought. So,
18:40
OK, I'm going to put you I'm going to put you
18:42
on the spot here and kind of use this if it's
18:45
all right with you as as a coach for a moment.
18:48
Free consulting. Let's go do it. Let's just say
18:50
now I get it. Now I get why you asked me. All
18:54
right. All right. Yeah. I mean, come on. Isn't
18:57
that why everybody starts a podcast? OK. Reader's
18:59
Digest version. I had told you that one of the
19:01
things I started was a fitness podcast. And the
19:04
the gist of it is I was doing it initially as
19:08
a like a. a journal of what I was going through
19:11
trying to get in shape for the first time as
19:13
a woman in my 40s. It has since turned into more
19:16
of a movement. So it's not got that many downloads,
19:19
but I see potential. I see big things. So what
19:23
would you say to me if I said to you, Justin,
19:25
I really want to get like a title sponsor or
19:28
something to get this out there more? What would
19:31
be the very first thing you would say for this
19:34
fitness podcast to get people to give it in?
19:36
Okay, so let's hone in on our success metrics
19:40
first, your success metrics. When you say, get
19:43
the podcast out there more, what does that mean?
19:46
Okay, so I don't have that many downloads, but
19:48
what I am having happen is because people are
19:50
listening to it, I am getting people sending
19:52
me DMs and talking to me and saying, because
19:55
of you, I came to the gym today. Because of you,
19:57
I downloaded a fitness app. Because of you, I'm
20:00
finally working out. So that's kind of what feels
20:03
successful to me is it feels like people are
20:05
like, finally moving their bodies, which is the
20:07
whole point of why I started telling people my
20:10
story. And so that's that's kind of the the gist
20:13
of it. OK, so what would a title sponsor do to
20:17
help you get it out there more? Basically, I
20:20
need the revenue to get it like. advertise to
20:24
people. Cause I mean, I did a Facebook ad campaign
20:26
and let's be honest, whenever you're advertising
20:29
a podcast on Facebook, no one gives a damn because
20:31
they're not listening to podcasts on Facebook.
20:33
They, you know, you got to get out and do more,
20:36
I guess, podcast interviews to get out in front
20:39
of people that are already listening to podcasts.
20:41
So it's, it's kind of one of those things where
20:44
I'm looking for the revenue to justify taking
20:46
time away from the paid work that I'm doing for
20:48
clients to go and spend that time. to get on
20:52
other podcasts. Does that make sense? No, it
20:54
does. It does. Yeah. So it's like I'm trying
20:57
to find a way of, OK, if I can if I can get the
20:59
money coming in for the fitness podcast, then
21:02
I can afford the time to go out and keep spreading
21:04
the message of why people need to be moving their
21:06
bodies. Got it. So this is an important conversation,
21:09
I think, because money or like sponsorship. uh,
21:15
the, the, the utility of those dollars is going
21:18
to be different for everyone. Right. So like,
21:20
I might have a conversation with someone else
21:21
and they say, oh, well, the reason I want a sponsorship
21:24
is because I really want to get in front of that
21:26
brand's audience. I want them to send the podcast
21:28
to their user base, or I want them to, and maybe
21:30
that's, maybe that's a distribution channel for
21:31
you. That could be cool. Right. But like, um,
21:34
sometimes people don't even care about the money.
21:36
It's like, I want to get in front of that brand's
21:38
audience or customers because they're like the
21:40
perfect listener, you know, persona of like who
21:43
I want. to, you know, so it's more of an impact
21:45
thing. Um, and so I just, I always like clarifying
21:47
this point because like the reason, like the
21:50
way in which we would, uh, devise a sponsor strategy
21:52
is going to change depending on what your goals
21:55
are for your project. Right. And so, um, so that's,
21:59
that's important to realize that the second conversation
22:02
we need to have is rather than thinking about,
22:06
let's just check our goals at the door for a
22:09
second here. Like we have impact goals and that
22:11
in money goals and that's all, all great and
22:12
well. But if we approach a sponsor with those
22:15
two things, they don't give a crap. They don't
22:17
care about you. They don't know who you are.
22:19
They don't care about your podcast. They don't
22:21
care about your impact goals. And so they're
22:23
not going to respond to your pitch. And so I
22:25
know that that is hard to hear. But like I'm
22:27
a lot of people call me they're like tough love
22:28
mentor. But this is the reality is that they
22:30
are very busy. And it's like, what's the with
22:32
him, right? It's what's in it for me, what's
22:34
in it for them. And if you cannot. succinctly
22:37
articulate that in an outreach email or video
22:40
um then you're gonna just feel very um demoralized
22:45
you know trying to trying to land a sponsor and
22:47
so it's a more productive exercise at this point
22:51
actually to try to reverse engineer okay what
22:54
what are brands uh what are the brands that i
22:58
could potentially help that accomplish a business
23:01
outcome by uh either being featured on my show
23:05
Or potentially, where my mind is going, creating
23:10
a turnkey podcast that is kind of like something
23:15
they own. Or it's the podcast powered by the
23:19
brand. So going to some sort of fitness, lifestyle,
23:23
you know, brand, women over 40, some brand that's
23:28
targeting that customer and say, hey, brand,
23:31
I see that you don't have a podcast. that you
23:34
own. I see that you're advertising on some podcasts
23:36
maybe. But wouldn't it be cool if you could be
23:41
having more regular conversations with your target
23:44
demographic, prospective customers, people on
23:46
your team, you know, and, you know, about why
23:49
it's important to serve this, you know, clientele.
23:52
I will be the host. I will lead the entire nuts
23:56
to bolts of the podcast production. You will
23:58
basically be kind of. the podcast powered by
24:02
brand. We create, we enter into some sort of
24:03
licensing agreement for a duration and you flip
24:07
the bill basically. And, and we, and we kind
24:09
of have the, uh, you know, a monthly quarterly
24:11
meeting where we talk about your goals and, and
24:13
you'll be the exclusive sponsor. So I'll do ad
24:15
reads for the promotion that's happening for
24:18
the summer campaign or whatever. Um, and so it's
24:20
basically a way for you guys to have a podcast
24:23
without starting a podcast yourself. Um, That's
24:26
where my mind goes with this idea because it
24:28
checks the impact box for you. It checks the
24:32
revenue box for you and potentially opens you
24:35
up to getting in front of their customers as
24:37
well. So how does this idea sound? I mean, that
24:40
sounds perfect. It makes complete sense. But
24:41
of course, the first thing that comes to mind,
24:43
and I'm sure if anybody's listening to this,
24:45
they're probably thinking it too. You just said
24:47
licensing and made it sound like they would own
24:49
it. So does that mean I can't put it on my channels?
24:52
Does that mean I don't own the rights? Tell me
24:54
a little bit about that. I would say that you
24:56
would want to, I mean, it would depend on what
24:58
brand, like the conversation with the brand.
25:01
For the right brand, they might want to buy it
25:03
from you, potentially. But in a more likely scenario,
25:08
the setup I'm talking about is you do some sort
25:10
of kind of like non -exclusive license for them
25:13
for a duration. So you are the exclusive sponsor.
25:16
You own it, but you are the exclusive sponsor
25:19
for 12 months. You get the rights to repurpose
25:22
the content. on your platforms if you want. So
25:25
it would still go out on your platforms, the
25:27
podcast, but there'd be like a little, on the
25:29
cover art, it would be like, you know, your podcast
25:32
powered by whatever brand. ABC Fitness, we'll
25:35
call it. Yeah, ABC Fitness. Sure. And they would
25:38
get the rights to do that for 12 months or so.
25:40
And then you, once that term is about to expire,
25:44
you go and have another conversation like, hey,
25:46
do we want to keep this? We want to kick it down
25:48
the road for another 12 months. Or we can say,
25:50
hey, that was a cool experiment. And we'll mutually
25:52
part ways. And that's really what I mean, that
25:55
it's like a turnkey thing where they're getting
25:58
to kind of put their stamp, their logo stamped
25:59
on your stuff. And they're the exclusive sponsor
26:03
and all that. But again, like these deals can
26:05
take a lot of different forms depending on what
26:07
the goals of the sponsor are. But if you want
26:09
to own the rights, you own the rights and just
26:10
license it to them. OK, so, OK, please don't
26:13
make fun of this. I just want to make sure I'm
26:14
understanding. So it could live on like my YouTube
26:17
channel, but they get to play with it however
26:19
they choose to for 12 months. Yeah. And you can
26:21
and you can slice and dice the rights that they
26:23
get. So it goes on your YouTube channel. You
26:26
could say you can't. publish this organically
26:30
anywhere meaning like on your youtube the brand's
26:33
youtube channels or their instagram or whatever
26:35
but you get the rights to run paid advertising
26:36
with it so i'll give you the raw youtube video
26:39
and then when i do the ad read for you you can
26:41
take that footage and run like instagram ads
26:43
with it or something for the term like 12 months
26:45
or something like that and so or you could say
26:47
no paid advertising can't do paid advertising
26:49
but you can repurpose this footage organically
26:51
so if you want to embed the videos on your website
26:53
or put it out in your email newsletter whatever
26:56
like um Yeah, just kind of, again, part of these
27:00
discovery conversations, if you were to pitch
27:03
this to a sponsor, is like asking them these
27:04
questions. What's important to you? Is that something
27:06
that'd be important to you? Is that? And if they
27:08
say no, like, actually, my wife and I literally
27:11
right before this call just got off a call with
27:13
a prospective sponsor and asked them a lot of
27:16
these similar questions. And I, you know, I laid
27:18
out the kind of three ways in which we usually
27:20
work with brands. The first being an awareness
27:22
-focused campaign where you're looking for maximizing.
27:25
you know, views and impressions and engagement
27:28
and just try to spread the word about the brand
27:29
name? Is it a repurposing campaign where, you
27:32
know, you want to get all the assets to like
27:33
do other things with it, paid ads, et cetera?
27:36
Or is it conversion focused? So they want to
27:38
drive sales or leads or trial signups or whatever.
27:40
And this brand in particular said, we don't care
27:43
about awareness at all. We've been around 15
27:44
years. A lot of people know about us, but repurposing
27:47
and conversion, those two sound really good.
27:49
And you know, you know, the interesting thing
27:51
about this conversation, Ashley, is that they
27:55
had never, no one had ever broken it down for
27:59
them in that way. That those were the three potential
28:00
goals of working with creators. They've been
28:02
around 15 years. They've done a little bit with
28:04
creator partnerships, but like we were the first
28:06
people to ever lay that out. And now they were
28:10
so jazzed with this framework because they were
28:13
like, oh man, this gives us such a firm way to
28:16
understand how we can collaborate with creators.
28:18
And it took like, the reason I say this is that
28:22
a lot of people think that every brand has this
28:24
stuff figured out. Like, oh, they got the marketing
28:26
teams, the agencies. Like, of course they understand
28:28
how this stuff works. No, a lot of them either
28:31
have never worked with creators or not done very,
28:34
very often. And so you might be the very first
28:37
person who comes to them with this type of, this
28:39
line of questioning. Well, how in the heck did
28:41
you figure it all out? Doing 600 deals myself
28:45
and thousands through my agency. And I just,
28:48
honestly, when I sat down to start educating
28:50
people, I just, I mean, I just had this. very,
28:54
this, this corpus of experience where I was like,
28:56
you know, what are the common themes amongst
28:58
the deals that I've done that have gone well?
29:00
What are the common things amongst the deals
29:02
that really went bad, badly, um, and started
29:05
over time, um, honing these, these frameworks.
29:08
And, and frankly, when I wrote my book sponsor
29:10
magnet, that really also made me force me to
29:14
kind of codify a lot of these things. And, and
29:17
the brilliant part about it actually was that.
29:20
I now have hundreds of success stories. So through
29:24
the course that I've taught for many years and
29:27
just doing coaching, I've been able to test these
29:31
frameworks out on so many different types of
29:33
different creators, different niches, different
29:36
platforms, like it very much is universal. And
29:40
so I feel very confident that this is like a
29:42
framework that anyone can use. I love that. And
29:45
a fun fact, after reading your book, Sponsor
29:47
Magnet, I actually went back and looked at my
29:49
own systems and processes in my business. And
29:51
it was the first time, even though I've been
29:53
doing, you know, the ghostwriting since 2014,
29:55
it was the first time I actually sat down and
29:57
wrote my onboarding documentation. Like I was
30:01
very lucky. I've been very lucky. I've gotten
30:03
all my clients through like, you know, referrals
30:05
and things like that. But I was like, okay, he
30:08
wrote it down because now he has something he
30:11
can go back to. And it seems so silly to be like,
30:15
well, duh, that makes sense. But if you never
30:17
write it down, you never know you need to write
30:19
it down. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, and I find it fascinating.
30:23
So, okay, another thing I'm going to ask you.
30:25
There's 11 billion companies out there. How the
30:27
heck do you figure out who to even add to a potential
30:30
sponsor pitch list? Yeah, so I'll tell you what
30:33
to not do. Sit in a room all by yourself, probably
30:38
playing depressing music. And thinking, what
30:43
brand would ever want to work with me? I don't
30:45
even know. Like, I'm so small. I don't have a
30:48
large following. Like, I've got imposter syndrome.
30:52
How do I know this? Because this is what we did,
30:54
right? All of my examples are stuff we did. Do
30:58
the rainwater on the window. Yeah, but tiny.
31:01
Like, I need a tiny, tiny violin sound. I don't
31:03
have that one. But, like, the other reason is
31:08
that, again. Think about it from the brand's
31:11
perspective. If I'm reaching out to them and
31:14
my only filter of trying to decide a good brand
31:17
for me is if I have used them, because this is
31:20
the filter most people use. Ah, I use this tool
31:22
or I use this product. I've used it for three
31:24
years. I'm going to say that when I reach out
31:26
to them. Again, from the brand's perspective,
31:29
they don't care that you use it. That is table
31:31
stakes. You know what they care about? Illustrating
31:35
to them that you, you're. audience has existing
31:38
affinity for their tool or their product because
31:41
their your audience is represents a pool of prospective
31:45
customers for them like you loving it and using
31:49
it is again like of course that's the case but
31:51
it's like you have to illustrate to them that
31:53
your audience has high intent for potentially
31:55
being interested in their tool and so the missing
31:58
component from this discovery process uh is actually
32:02
involving your audience in this conversation
32:04
so doing a survey And saying in your top of your
32:09
show notes or in your newsletter or whatever
32:10
and saying, hey, I'm planning out my next six
32:14
months of content and I would love to learn more
32:17
about you so I can ensure that it serves you.
32:19
Would you mind asking a series of, you know,
32:21
answering a series of six or seven questions
32:23
so I can learn more about you? I, you know, I
32:25
can see everything on the podcast, you know,
32:27
demographics, male, female split, geography,
32:30
ages. Like, yeah, OK, I guess that's helpful.
32:32
But like, you know, it's more helpful. psychographic
32:35
information. What type of job do you have? Do
32:37
you have kids? Are you married? What's keeping
32:39
you up at night? What problems do you have? What
32:42
brands and products and services are you using
32:44
and loving right now to help you solve those
32:46
problems, right? Imagine if for your fitness
32:50
podcast, Ashley, you do a survey like that and
32:54
35 % of respondents say that they are stay -at
32:59
-home moms. I don't know. I'm making that up.
33:02
But imagine How much differently you would approach
33:06
not only content for that type of listener about
33:11
how to stay fit when you have all these, you
33:13
know, you're homeschooling or whatever. And,
33:15
you know, you have little kids running around
33:17
or whatever. But also brands. You think, oh,
33:20
I've got a big cohort of like homeschooling,
33:24
you know, families in my audience. Maybe I should
33:26
go out there and pitch ABC Mouse or something,
33:29
which is like a reading tool. Now, is that a
33:33
tool that you would ever think to pitch for your
33:34
fitness podcast? If you didn't have that data
33:36
from your audience? No, not at all. And yet I
33:40
bet you could think of a pretty creative way
33:42
to integrate that. Like, Hey, I know you're juggling,
33:44
you know, you're trying to be healthy while you're
33:47
juggling, you know, your kids and trying to keep
33:48
them. Well, guess what? Great. I've got this
33:51
solution for you here. So you can get in a quick
33:53
15 minute workout while your kid learns to read.
33:55
Like that's a great ad read, really cool ad read,
33:58
but only one that you would know to do. If you
34:01
involve your audience in this, in this conversation,
34:04
and by the way, think about how much better of
34:05
a pitch it is when you approach ABC mouse, you
34:08
say, instead of being like, Oh, I love your tool.
34:10
I think my audience would be into it. You're
34:11
saying 35 % of my audience, I have a survey saying
34:15
that they're having challenges with the thing
34:17
that your product solves. I mean, it's like a
34:20
slam dunk. Yeah. And it's interesting you say
34:22
that because I've actually started asking for
34:24
like voice notes and people to reach out to me,
34:27
like with questions and all these things, because
34:30
I want to get to know my audience more. And it's
34:33
fascinating some of the questions and responses
34:35
I've been getting just from that simple tip,
34:37
like things I never would have even thought of.
34:39
Like, OK, first of all, I can't stand when people
34:41
try to cram protein powder down your throat.
34:43
But I do like that some people are like, OK,
34:45
I have children and I can't get to the gym. So
34:48
how the heck can I work out at home? And so I
34:50
actually did an episode about that because I
34:53
didn't even think about it because I don't have
34:54
kids. I go to the gym. So it's interesting when
34:58
you start thinking of it more as a community
35:00
of audience members rather than just people you're
35:03
speaking at. One of my favorite uses of AI, I
35:06
would say, is taking those voice notes, training
35:09
like a cloud project or on ChatGPT or something
35:11
and taking the transcripts and dumping, you know,
35:15
five or six of them in there and being like.
35:16
Give me five themes that are coming through in
35:18
these in these notes that, you know, I could,
35:22
you know, that are like pain points or challenges
35:24
that my audiences are experiencing. And that
35:26
could you could use those those themes to design
35:29
your surveys. Not me over here taking notes,
35:31
just trying to do all that. That is fantastic.
35:33
Well, OK, I'm going to ask you something. What
35:36
is something that no one has asked you about
35:38
sponsorships that you really want to make sure
35:40
we get out in this episode? Wow, that's a great
35:44
question. You know, I think one thing that is
35:51
a common misconception is that my work is only
35:54
for influencers. Right. It's only it's only for
35:57
people who are like on the social media platforms,
36:01
you know, like TikTok, Instagram, YouTube or
36:03
whatever, because that's where most people think
36:05
of is like, oh, I'll do a brand deal on those
36:06
like on social media or whatever. But the thing
36:11
that I wish I could take anyone by the shoulders
36:13
and just kind of shake them and be like. No,
36:16
it's not just for influencers like this is for
36:20
people who have in -person events. This is if
36:23
you have a newsletter, a podcast, a, you know,
36:27
a course, a private community, anywhere where
36:32
you have built up influence over a body of people.
36:35
You could do sponsorships by allowing brands
36:40
the privilege of getting in front of those people.
36:43
And so I think that that. That really is, it's
36:46
actually probably kind of the next chapter of
36:48
my education is like, how do I get through to
36:50
those people? Because there's a lot of people
36:52
who I go, I'll go to a conference or something.
36:55
And it's kind of like a non -traditional, not
36:57
like a creator conference. And, you know, someone
37:00
will ask me, oh, what do you do? And I'm like,
37:02
oh, I'm a sponsorship coach. And they just make
37:04
a snap judgment. Like, oh, that's not for me.
37:05
Like authors, like this is a great example, authors.
37:07
Like I went to an author event and. Within five
37:12
minutes of talking with an author, they are completely
37:16
sold. They're like, I need to do sponsorships.
37:18
Like I've never even thought about before, but
37:21
like they have a 30 ,000 person email list and
37:23
the only thing they've ever used the email list
37:25
for is selling their books. And I said to myself,
37:29
I said to them, like there's so many other ways
37:31
in which you can serve your audience with brands
37:33
and products that are other than your books with
37:35
challenges that they're experiencing, right?
37:36
And so it's a big unlock for a lot of people.
37:39
So I think that's really, that's how I'd answer
37:41
that. I think two things that you said to me
37:43
just really struck a chord. First, you said a
37:45
mindset shift that I didn't even think about.
37:47
You said you're giving the brand the privilege
37:50
of getting in front of your audience. That is
37:52
a wild shift that I like, even though you've
37:55
probably said it before, just hearing you saying
37:57
it now, it's like, oh, yeah, I'm doing this for
38:00
you. You know why? Can we let me agitate this?
38:03
Yes. When a brand wants to get in front of a
38:07
customer right now. What are their only two options?
38:11
Their only two options are emailing their existing
38:13
customer lists if they have that contact info
38:16
or paying Facebook, Instagram, YouTube to run
38:22
ads. They have to pay those platforms to put
38:25
their message in front of their prospective customers.
38:27
And so in what realm of reality is it fair for
38:32
them to offer free stuff or even affiliate deals?
38:35
to do the same to get in front of your audience
38:37
when they have to do, when they have to pay Facebook
38:39
and Instagram and YouTube to do the same. So
38:41
I just, I wanted to make that point. That's so
38:43
good. And the other thing that you said, and
38:45
it kind of just brought this out of me, is not
38:48
only are you giving the brand the privilege to
38:51
be in front of your audience, you're showing
38:53
your audience something that they may never have
38:55
even thought of or heard of before. So by not
38:58
getting a brand in front of them, you're kind
39:00
of doing them a disservice, it feels like. 100
39:03
% because Um, I talk, I got a lot of frameworks.
39:07
I'm just warning you here. This, I think my mind
39:09
thinks in frameworks. I love that though. Let's
39:11
go. Um, I call it your PSA. It's called your
39:16
audience first offer framework, which is that
39:18
a lot of people, uh, let's look at you, for example,
39:21
like you, your products. So is the things that
39:26
you're directly selling to your clients, ghostwriting
39:28
services, for example, is like your product.
39:30
Right. Um, and there's actually. two other legs
39:34
to this stool of ways in which you can serve
39:36
your audience or customers that a lot of people
39:38
don't think about the second is your sponsors
39:40
like we were talking about on most of this episode
39:42
which is like there's probably things challenges
39:45
that your ghostwriting clients are experiencing
39:48
that you're never going to really be able to
39:50
solve or people on your fitness podcast or something
39:52
that you're never really going to solve with
39:53
a fitness boot camp that you ultimately run or
39:57
something like that like home gym equipment like
39:59
that's not going to be something you're not going
40:01
to get into manufacturing to make equipment like
40:03
that. Right. So it would make sense for you to
40:05
partner with a brand like that. The third bucket,
40:07
though, is one that a lot of people don't think
40:08
about, which is alliances, meaning you do a survey
40:13
for your audience and a lot of people come back
40:15
to you and say, I don't know, I'm having relationship
40:21
issues or marital issues because I've had health
40:25
challenges and I'm having conflict with my partner
40:27
because of that or whatever. That's probably
40:29
not going to be something you delve into because
40:31
you're not a therapist or a marriage family counselor
40:33
or something like that. But maybe you have a
40:35
friend who's a coach that can help couples with
40:39
that or something like that. If you know that
40:41
that's a big, significant challenge for your
40:42
audience based on the survey, it might make sense
40:45
to do an episode with your friend. And maybe
40:47
there's some sort of joint venture or affiliate
40:49
type arrangement where you get their offer, their
40:51
coaching program, their boot camp or something
40:53
in front of your people. But again, you'll never
40:56
know that until you involve them. And so this
40:58
PSA, your products that you sell sponsors other
41:01
brands and products. And then alliances, like
41:04
you said, you're doing a disservice to your audience
41:06
if you're not thinking through a comprehensive
41:07
way to serve your audience. Okay. Were you in
41:10
my voice notes or something? Because I literally,
41:12
I'm not even kidding you. I literally just got
41:14
a voice note of someone saying, my partner's
41:16
not supportive of my fitness journey. How do
41:18
I work through that? That is, this is weird.
41:21
This is very weird. You sure you weren't listening?
41:23
I promise. I just, I've been doing this long
41:26
enough. That is just wild. Like, I mean, you
41:30
tickled my brain just then. All right. So one
41:33
of the things that you said that I have to bring
41:35
up because it's one of the reasons I was so excited
41:38
to talk to you is you said getting sponsorships
41:41
for in -person events and you are about to have
41:44
a big in -person event. How the heck are you
41:46
sponsoring your thing? My goodness. So I've actually
41:49
been cataloging the entire process publicly.
41:54
Which I love, by the way. My event is called
41:58
Sponsor Games. It's happening March 15th to the
42:01
18th in San Antonio, Texas. And can I just do
42:05
a quick plug for the event? Because I think it's
42:06
like a really fun and unique event that I just
42:10
I'm so proud of it. So, you know, I've been going
42:12
to kind of creator focused events for over a
42:15
decade. And there was always only like maybe
42:19
one or two talks about. brand partnerships. And
42:22
that never made sense to me because I was like,
42:24
this is the number one way in which my wife and
42:25
I are making money. And a lot and like virtually
42:28
everyone I know is their number one member of
42:30
stream. Why is there not an entire event focused
42:32
on sponsorships? And so for a decade, I was hoping
42:36
someone would like make an event for this. And
42:38
so finally, I was like, I guess it's me. I guess
42:40
I'm the person who has to make this event. And
42:42
so I basically made a list of everything that
42:44
I hate about events. And I decided to do the
42:47
opposite. So for example, Food. Food always sucks
42:50
at every event I've ever been to. We're going
42:52
to ball out on catering. We're going to spend
42:55
most of the money on catering. One. Second, I
42:58
hate panels. I hate workshops, keynotes. I'm
43:01
falling asleep. I'm looking at my emails. What
43:04
I want to do is I want to get into the hallway.
43:07
And I want to talk with people and network. How
43:10
can I make an event where the entire event feels
43:11
like that? Number three. How can I make this
43:15
feel outcome focused? So it's not just like I'm
43:17
spending a bunch of time away from my family,
43:18
a bunch of money, hotels, airfare, all this.
43:21
And like. some nebulous takeaways at the end.
43:24
No, like I want to feel like I got some big transformation
43:27
at the end of the event. And so basically what
43:29
I did is I took my eight step sponsorship wheel
43:31
framework and I turned it into eight games that
43:33
you play to learn and master these concepts.
43:35
So the pitch game, the negotiate game, right?
43:37
You're getting up on stage, you're practicing
43:39
your pitch, you're doing role play as if I was
43:41
a brand and overcoming objections. And so it's
43:43
like you very much roll up your sleeves and practice
43:47
this stuff. And so to your point, like. I wanted
43:51
to kind of show how the sausage was made, so
43:53
to speak. And so this whole journey of talking
43:55
about the event, I have asked the sponsors who
44:00
I am pitching if they would allow me to record
44:04
my pitch to them live. And so I've done this
44:07
three times now. Two have aired on my podcast.
44:10
One is about to air. But I basically like I literally.
44:14
Went through the whole process. I said, you know,
44:16
here's what I'm proposing. You know, they gave
44:18
me objections. I also interspersed the podcast
44:22
with my own commentary. Like, okay, I said, okay,
44:24
pause. Here's what they said. Here's what I thought
44:26
they were thinking at this time. Almost like
44:28
a reality show kind of thing, you know? And yeah,
44:31
it's just been such a fun journey to try to pull
44:35
back the curtain on a lot of this stuff. Because
44:36
I think at the end of the day, that's what it
44:37
feels like. It feels so mysterious, enigmatic.
44:40
Like, how do you figure out how much to charge?
44:43
What are the comps? Like, what do other people
44:44
charge? And so I think it's been a really fun
44:47
journey for that sake. And I'm happy to say that,
44:50
you know, we have locked in four sponsors for
44:54
the event and one maybe still might close. But
44:59
it's been a fun ride. What I love about the fact
45:01
that you've been, like, basically... documenting
45:04
this in public is you're showing you're putting
45:07
the proof in the pudding, right? You're showing
45:08
everybody. I'm not just telling you how to do
45:11
it. I'm not just a teacher. I'm doing it. And
45:14
everything that you're teaching is in your awesome
45:16
book sponsor magnet. Everybody needs to read
45:18
it. If you're considering sponsorship, I've actually
45:20
sent your book to so many people because it's
45:22
like they'll complain to me like, oh, I'm a creator
45:25
and I need to make money. And then it's like,
45:27
then read the damn book. Just saying. Oh, and
45:32
we'll leave a link in the show notes so that
45:33
people can check out the event as well, because
45:36
they, I want to go to it, but I can't this year.
45:38
So, but people need to go and I can live vicariously
45:41
through them and everybody needs to document
45:42
it. I appreciate it so much. Yes. And then while
45:46
I still got you here, I actually reached out
45:48
to you before we sat down and I said, I wanted
45:50
to ask you from like a, through a pop culture
45:53
perspective about your business and what it is
45:55
you do. And you actually said to me that you
45:58
wanted to talk about the war of art. And so you're
46:01
the first person that has brought this up. And
46:03
so I want to know what it was about the war of
46:05
art that made you made it resonate with you.
46:07
So first of all, anyone who has not read this
46:09
book, it's like one of my favorites by Steven
46:11
Pressfield. It's all about the overarching theme
46:16
is about this concept of what he calls a resistance.
46:18
And I think that we experience this as creatives,
46:22
as entrepreneurs in so many different aspects
46:24
of both our personal and professional life. It's
46:27
this. embodiment of friction of a for an opposing
46:31
force that is preventing us from accomplishing
46:35
these big ambitious goals that we have, whether
46:37
they're creative projects or otherwise. And this
46:40
really, really resonates with me because in so
46:42
many, I have these big ambitious goals like you
46:45
do in terms of impact and people I'm hoping to
46:48
touch. But for whatever reason, there always
46:52
seems like there's these big obstacles in the
46:54
way for that. And so his One of his whole points
46:58
throughout the book is that the only way to beat
47:03
resistance is to just sit down and do the work.
47:05
Yeah, that's it. You have to. It's like he also
47:08
talks about this analogy of like kind of like
47:09
going pro, like amateurs and pros. They will
47:13
just sit down, even if they're not feeling like
47:16
it, even if they're feeling crummy, even if their
47:18
head is not in the right place, even if they're
47:20
just sitting there staring at a blinking cursor
47:22
for two hours. You sit down and you and you push
47:25
through it. He believes that writer's block is
47:27
like not a real thing. Like you literally just
47:29
have to sit down until even if it is not sounding
47:32
good or we can go back later and edit it. And
47:34
so that that I wanted to talk about this because
47:37
I feel like there are. Once you take control
47:42
of this narrative, instead of feeling like you're
47:45
a victim, like, oh, the world is acting against
47:48
me to prevent me, conspiring against me to accomplish
47:51
my things. I just feel like it's such a more
47:53
productive frame to say like, okay, yes, I've
47:56
been dealt this not ideal hand of cards. But
48:00
the only way to overcome that is to just sit
48:03
down and methodically figure out how I'm going
48:05
to get out of this situation or get to the goal
48:07
that I want to. And so I just think it's a master.
48:10
masterclass and it's really helped guide my business.
48:12
I think it's fascinating because I mean, it is
48:14
really that internal resistance that it stops
48:17
us from creating and pursuing that meaningful
48:19
work. And isn't it funny how when you start actually
48:22
putting in the work, regardless of what you feel,
48:25
you actually start accomplishing your goals.
48:28
Who knew? Who knew? Exactly. Who knew? Yeah.
48:32
And so it seems like, like a lot of the key themes
48:34
were like, Professional mindset beats talent
48:36
alone. And I love John Lee Dumas. He always talks
48:39
about, you know, putting in the reps and, and,
48:41
and I just, it's become a thing for me. It's
48:44
kind of why fitness has become such an addiction
48:46
because I mean, six months ago, I couldn't get
48:49
through a single class without like, just being
48:52
completely like out of breath. I couldn't do
48:54
jumping jacks. I couldn't hold a plank and all
48:56
that, all that stuff. And now because I just
48:58
kept putting in the reps, even though I didn't
49:00
think I was a fitness person, I sort of became
49:02
a fitness person. Who knew that if you just did
49:05
the work, you could actually do the work? That's
49:08
really inspirational. And I think there's so
49:10
many, man, there's so many stories I could tell
49:12
here. But like one of the most common questions
49:15
that I get is I do a lot of public speaking and
49:20
people are always like, how did you get to be
49:22
such a good public speaker? You're so poised.
49:24
You like don't say um a lot. And there's two
49:26
things that I share. The first is that I have
49:30
live streamed pretty much every week for almost
49:33
five years. And putting in the reps of being
49:38
able to be dynamic and read the chat and talk
49:40
about random stuff as things come up is the number
49:43
one reason why I'm a better speaker is just putting
49:45
in the reps of like practicing that skill of
49:48
being able to articulate pretty much or expound
49:51
on any topic that people throw at me with respect
49:54
to sponsorships. That's number one. And then
49:56
the other reason is I hired a coach. I hired
49:59
a speaking coach to help me learn. Help me learn
50:02
how to improve my diction and my analogies and
50:05
the way I move on stage, you know, is like it's
50:09
all part of like practicing. And this is what
50:11
pros do. They hire coaches. They hire people
50:14
who are ahead of them or experts at this. You
50:18
know, you look at any professional athlete, people
50:19
in the Olympics, like they all have coaches.
50:21
And so I think that there's this weird. stigma
50:27
sometimes i think from like taking courses or
50:30
hiring coaches or things like that especially
50:31
on on the internet um a weird stigma against
50:35
that and yet there's no stigma uh on paying a
50:39
hundred thousand dollars to go to get a four
50:40
-year education and are you gonna use that degree
50:42
i don't know maybe not but like somehow that's
50:44
okay but like hiring so i just feel like there's
50:48
there has to be this re this shifting of mindset
50:51
when it comes to getting to where you want my
50:54
shortcut is always like who can i hire Who can
50:56
I hire that's already done this? I'll just pay
50:57
them to give me the shortcut. And so I feel like
51:01
there's this combination of like really sitting
51:03
and doing the work and figuring out who you can
51:05
surround yourself with to succeed. Whenever you
51:08
are still pitching a brand or still going live,
51:10
I got to know, do you still get scared? You know,
51:16
I don't think I do. Really? Okay. No, I don't.
51:20
There are certain things that I get really nervous
51:22
about when they're very high stakes, for sure.
51:25
Some of the pitches that I did when I was pitching
51:28
for my event felt pretty high stakes. But generally,
51:32
so the reason that I don't get that nervous anymore
51:34
is because I've adopted this mindset, which is
51:39
that it's not no. If they say no to me, it's
51:43
not no. It's not yet. It's just not the right
51:45
time for them. They don't have the budget. It's
51:47
not a priority. eventually they'll come back
51:51
and I'll partner with them because I don't give
51:54
up. And if not, it wasn't meant to be. Yeah.
51:58
And so I just, I've done this. Part of it again
52:02
is like putting in the wraps. I've done this
52:04
enough to know that even if I say no to a brand
52:08
for a reason, they'll probably come back around
52:11
two years later. They either. it's now the right
52:14
time or they're working at another company now.
52:17
And they always remembered that great interaction
52:19
that they had with, you know, my wife and I,
52:20
for example. And so there is the privilege a
52:23
bit, I think, of reps and volume factors in.
52:28
Now, going back to The War of Art, if you could
52:31
take just one lesson from that book and give
52:33
it to baby Justin, what would you say was the
52:37
most important thing that they need to pull from
52:38
it? Oh, my goodness. It's that. everyone experiences
52:42
resistance. I, I, yeah, I, I very much thought
52:47
I was unique. Like I have this imposter syndrome.
52:49
Like, can I really do that? Especially man, the
52:51
book. Wow. That was the, that was the pinnacle
52:54
of resistance for me. Cause there were so many
52:56
times where, cause I had a writing block two
52:58
hours a day. Monday through Friday, I bought
53:01
a two -hour hourglass, this massive hourglass.
53:04
And I would just go like chomp and I would like
53:07
turn it over. I would turn on D &D on all my
53:10
devices and I would just sit in front of the
53:12
screen for two hours a day. And man, when you
53:14
don't know what you're going to say that day
53:17
or you don't know where to go from this section,
53:19
man, that resistance just eats into you. Is this
53:22
going to be a good book? Are people going to
53:24
want to read this? Am I going to lose money?
53:26
Like, am I going to, you know, like all this
53:27
stuff just goes on in your head. And the more
53:31
I have talked about this feeling and articulated
53:35
it, the more it's so clear to me that like everyone
53:37
goes through a version of this. And so I think
53:40
that that was the most comforting part. And if
53:41
I could go back and tell Justin from many years
53:44
ago, even before writing the book, you know,
53:47
like there's comfort in knowing that this is
53:49
a common thing. Yeah, I think one of my favorite
53:51
phrases I've ever heard is don't believe everything
53:53
you think. I love that. And that's just kind
53:57
of what was resonating with me just now as you
54:00
were talking. Well, Justin, where can people
54:01
find all of your good stuff online? I'm going
54:03
to leave show notes and all the good things,
54:05
but if you had one place that they had to go,
54:07
where would you send them? I would definitely
54:09
send it to the book, sponsormagnet .com. We've
54:14
literally just scratched the surface of everything
54:16
that I talk about in the book. And if you're
54:20
interested in coming to the event, that's sponsorgames
54:23
.com. Really, the book will you can tumble down
54:26
the rabbit hole if you're interested in getting
54:28
our support with anything else. Yeah. And what
54:30
I love about the book is that you didn't hold
54:32
anything back. It wasn't like, oh, you just read
54:34
just a little bit and then you have to pay more
54:36
if you want to know more. But what's cool is
54:38
you also have the coaching stuff so that you
54:40
can get the hands on and the I will hold your
54:43
hand and walk you through this. But just the
54:44
fact that you give all your secrets away. I mean,
54:47
it's a steal. You're an idiot if you don't buy
54:49
it. Let me let me say one parting note to anyone
54:52
listening to this about that. I believe open
54:57
sourcing, everything you know, is the way to
55:01
build your moat in the age of AI. Because education
55:04
or just knowledge wants to be free. And it'll
55:09
be basically virtually free with any LLM. And
55:13
so what people will need your support with, though,
55:16
is execution. Holding their hand. coaching them
55:20
through it uh in -person experiences and so i
55:23
really would encourage anyone who's listening
55:25
to this who's who's wrestling with some of these
55:27
same fears and uncertainties that i was this
55:30
is why i open sourced the book because i said
55:31
these are not state secrets these are things
55:36
that everyone should know and a very small percentage
55:38
of these people will probably want to hire me
55:39
for other things and and i'm really glad i made
55:41
that bet I love that so much. Well, and I'm going
55:44
to leave you with one last question that I ask
55:46
everyone. What is one question you've never been
55:48
asked that you really wish you had? Well, I was
55:55
in a metal band in high school, Ashley. No, you
55:59
were not. Versus metal band. And I don't think
56:03
anyone's ever asked me if I had long hair when
56:08
I was in the metal band. Did you have long hair
56:11
when you were in the metal band? I didn't have
56:12
long hair. Everyone always thinks that I did
56:16
because there was definitely guys in my band
56:18
that had, you know, they had the long hair. But
56:20
I was the I was like the clean cut, like lead
56:23
singer. We also had a separate screamer. We had
56:26
a I was a singer and we did a screamer. So this
56:30
was this was it was pretty intense. That is fantastic.
56:33
Do you still riff on the mic occasionally? You
56:36
know, like. And speaking of like creative acts
56:40
and like flow, when I'm writing, when I wrote
56:42
this whole book, all I listened to is metal.
56:45
The entire like that is what I listen to when
56:47
I'm in flow is I listen to metal. And so, yeah,
56:50
I that's definitely my my genre of choice. That's
56:53
awesome. My thing is actually when I'm trying
56:54
to write, I listen to binaural beats and I just
56:57
I can't have any lyrics because then I start
56:59
singing along. Yeah. So I just hope to like have
57:02
the beats. That is wild. Oh, my goodness. Justin,
57:05
this was such a fun conversation. I appreciate
57:07
your time so much. Thank you for being here.
57:11
And this is just great. Anything else you want
57:13
to share before we wrap it up? No, this is so
57:15
great. Really appreciate you inviting me on.
57:19
All right, you guys, that's a wrap on today's
57:21
episode. I hope you enjoyed all the golden nuggets
57:23
that Justin had to share with you, because honestly,
57:25
there were so many good ones, right? I mean,
57:27
it was just. So much fun talking to him. If you're
57:30
ready to stop leaving money on the table and
57:32
start landing the brand deals that you deserve,
57:34
be sure to head over to famousashleygrant .com
57:37
backslash sponsor magnet to get the show notes
57:39
for this episode and learn more about Justin.
57:41
As always, thank you so much for tuning in, my
57:43
bloggy friends. And until next time, may your
57:45
page views be high and your bounce rate be low.
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