Episode 41Feb 3, 2023· 34:43
A Chat with Nina From Terkel
About this episode
In this episode, I'm chatting with the amazing Nina from Terkel.io
If you have been listening to this podcast for a while, you know I was a huge advocate of HARO - aka Help a Reporter Out. Well, as of late I've become pretty frustrated with the amount of spam on the website and I went looking for an alternative.
Luckily, Isaac Mashman of Mashman Ventures and Brian Laffey turned me onto the new kid on the block -…
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Full transcript
00:00
Welcome to the Bloggy Friends show!
00:25
What's up my Bloggy Friends? Famous Ashley Grant here and I just want to welcome you to the Bloggy Friends show.
00:29
We're so excited to have you join us on this journey of sharing our knowledge and experiences with you.
00:34
Whether you're a blogger, a content creator, or just someone who's interested in learning more about the digital world, we've got something for you.
00:40
So grab your notebook and a pen to take some notes or just sit back and take in all the amazing information and ideas we're about to share with you.
00:46
Let's get into it.
00:48
Well, Nina, welcome to the show. I'm so excited that you could be here. Could you do me a favor and tell me what it is that you do?
00:55
Sure. Thanks for having me, first of all. I'm Nina and I am the VP of Marketing at Turkle.
01:02
Wow. So that was quick. And you know what's awesome is they say...
01:06
We can go through what Turkle is. I wasn't sure if you wanted me to do the whole intro.
01:10
Oh yeah, we'll get into that. I kind of like that you said just VP of Marketing because they say that the shorter your title is, the more important you are.
01:19
Okay, we'll go with that. You know, actually, it's funny because we're such a small company. I like rarely ever refer to myself as anything other than just, hey, I'm Nina.
01:31
I love it. I love it so much.
01:33
I don't even think I have a signature. I'm not even going to lie. I never use them. Even when I was CEO long ago. I never really used signatures.
01:41
I saw something earlier today. It said, my pronouns are she, E, and O.
01:47
So, she, E, O. Anyway, that's silly for another discussion. So what is Turkle?
01:55
Sure. So Turkle is a platform that turns publisher queries into full length articles for brands using our expert insights.
02:04
So I'll give you an example that I was just looking at.
02:08
Fast Company recently asked the question back in December, actually, or November for the end of the year, what to founders, specifically in CEOs, what was your biggest failure in 2022 and what did you learn from it?
02:23
And so founders and leaders who are on our platform responded. Nine ended up being chosen and we submitted a full length feature to Fast Company and I can send you the link later if folks who are listening want to read it.
02:36
But essentially that's what we do all day, every day.
02:40
So you gather expert opinions for journalists, really, it sounds like. Journalists and bloggers and content creators.
02:47
Journalists, bloggers, yes. Tons of different brands with blogs. I mean, your places like HubSpot or Upwork who have brand blogs that are focused on learning and development for their readers and then traditional journalists like Fast Company.
03:03
Now, how do people find that you're looking for specific things to be able to respond?
03:09
Sure. So as an expert, you will log in, create a profile.
03:14
We prefer people logging in actually through their LinkedIn because it makes it so much easier for anybody on the publisher side to be able to check their credentials.
03:23
But we also do that on our end so we verify experts are who they say they are. And they get a menu essentially of all of the different types of queries that are open and they get to choose what they want to submit to or submit for rather, and they can skip, pass, respond to all that makes
03:43
sense for their expertise. We prioritize and our, our back end does this automatically but we prioritize folks who, for example, with that Fast Company article, if you're a founder or a CEO, Fast Company requested that those be the people who respond so those types of people who have that in their title
04:02
were the ones who are who were given priority to Fast Company. But, you know, we will, we will look at anyone if their expertise matches the query.
04:13
Now that sounds a lot like another site that I'm pretty familiar with that I've actually talked about ad nauseum to lots of people, and that's Helper Reporter Out also known as Harrow.
04:24
Now, what is the difference, I already know the answer but for anyone who's listening what is the difference between Harrow and Turkle.
04:32
You know, from a very basic level, Harrow is much more difficult to use.
04:42
Turkle has its own back end you log in you, it's very organized.
04:47
You can easily track your responses all in one place. Harrow.
04:52
From the beginning I mean back when I was in PR Harrow started as an email and it's still pretty much an email that's the majority of the back and forth. I think from an expert perspective, the feedback that we're constantly getting is that it's so much easier for people
05:06
to submit responses track their answers find the right types of outlets that they would like to submit for. And there's, it cuts out a lot of the noise. And then from the publisher side of things.
05:19
You're not like we were talking about earlier you're not going to get 300 pitches that were spam. That does not happen inside of Turkle period the end that's something we make sure does not occur.
05:30
So, those are some really big differences, I think, users in general feel that Turkle is a great Harrow alternative. But as a former publicist I can see how using both could be beneficial depending on what, depending on what you do for a living really
05:49
as a publicist I think will always want to be everywhere. But if you're for example an SEO specialist Turkle makes a lot more sense than, than weeding through Harrow on a daily basis.
06:02
I can actually attest to that I tested the product before I reached out to you and the reason I did that is, we had Isaac Mashman on the show.
06:11
And I think that's a great example of how we can use Harrow to promote a website. And the thing that has been happening I've been as of this year I've been in the industry for 16 years as a freelance writer, and in the beginning, it was so neat having Harrow,
06:29
I was a huge advocate for it I loved it so much because it finally gave me an easy way to get multiple people responding to these queries. Unfortunately nowadays, I do get so much spam, and I was working on an article for a client.
06:45
And it was a very simple query with very simple instructions, as far as I understood it. But when I sent out the query, I received 200 and I think it was 286 that I said, 286 responses, and almost all of them, I had to throw out, and they were long, and you could tell some of them
07:04
I used AI programs to write it and some of them didn't even address the question I had. And, you know, one guy basically wrote a, he wrote a damn book, and he was just like, he wrote all this stuff, and none of it was useful, and then sent me berating emails wanting to know why I didn't include him in my piece.
07:25
It didn't even answer the question. So, I was really excited whenever I got a chance to try Terkel because, like you said, you vet the people.
07:35
And I think that's my favorite part of it.
07:38
Yeah, it is, it's extremely important for us to do that. And I think the, it's really interesting actually because we see, you know, people try, you know, obviously when we audit, we'll see people try to do what they're doing with you and Harrow and they immediately get caught and tossed because what really like, we want to make this easy and seamless for our publishers or our content writers, like what you do.
08:04
We want to make you read 600 responses, where only 20 of them are great, or usable, and then from that 25 are like perfect for what you're looking for. That's what we want. That's what we're working towards every day.
08:20
Oh, that's fantastic because I mean, yeah, whenever I got all those responses, when I tell you, I spent at least six hours going through all of them trying to find that diamond in the rough just to get this article done by deadline.
08:32
I was pulling my hair out by the end of it. And you know, my husband, he's, he's watching me write the, write this article and he's just like, what is taking so long? This should have been done like hours ago.
08:41
And I agreed. It was like, it was, it was absolutely awful.
08:46
I have a little PTSD from that. So, so, but yet when I got the article back from, from Turkle with a, with a very simple query with very simple instructions, I barely changed anything. In fact, I think all I did was add an intro sentence that more met the meta description that I was trying to go for.
09:03
And I was able to publish it as is. Do you get that a lot from a lot of the people that receive stuff from you guys?
09:08
Yeah, I would say, I would say like nine times out of 10, we don't see a lot of changes. I would say exactly what you did, which is change the subject line sometimes headers, just to match the voice of the publication a little bit more.
09:26
But yeah, that's the goal really like to make sure that people don't have to do 20 hours of work where it should have been 30 minutes max. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's awesome. And I think that especially now whenever people are craving authenticity, craving actual experts, answering actual questions.
09:47
I think that, especially now here in 2023, this is like one of those times that we need expert opinions, more than ever. You know, before we hit record on this, we were talking about how AI is a thing right now.
09:59
But, you know, the funny thing is Google had previously like announced that they were trying to investigate how they felt about the whole AI thing and where they going to penalize websites if they could tell that it was using AI.
10:12
And today I saw on Twitter that apparently they're reversing that decision and as long as it helps the user, they're okay with AI. But at the same time, there is there's such a need for real experts answering real questions and giving people the answers that they're looking for.
10:28
What do you think about that?
10:30
Yeah. Like I said before we hit record, I think there is room for marketers, content writers, anyone who's really like operates under the marketing umbrella to use both types of tools.
10:43
I think I didn't see the thing about on today about Google reversing the decision. I find that fascinating and I'm going to absolutely dig into that a little bit more.
10:54
But I believe that there's room for both types of tools. So there's a stat that I can't remember the exact number, but essentially it's that the vast majority of knowledge is actually inside of human beings brains, it is not actually on the internet.
11:15
When it comes to AI, like a chat GPT there, it is just pulling with for what is available from what's currently available online. So if the majority of expertise is actually not online, chat GPT is never going to replace human beings.
11:30
That's just not going to be the case. And I think that that will never change in terms of what is online versus what is in our heads. We're learning every single day, the computer isn't able to do that yet.
11:42
So, TBD on what happens but right now I don't see that being even 10 years, probably into the future because we as human beings are learning so much every single day if you think about it as a collective like all 7 million people.
12:01
Because Google, you know there's something that we are working on with our publishers, where, because Google really like has made it very clear from the beginning that they want information available on the web to be as beneficial to the reader as possible
12:21
and they always prioritize anything that the reader is going to find useful and they have a variety of different ways to do that. But for all intents and purposes let's just talk about useful content.
12:32
We have a tool that essentially makes it very simple for a user to let's say search like biggest let's use the fast company example again, biggest failures from founders in 2022, and what they did about it. If you search for that let's say we used our, our tool which we didn't in this particular
12:55
fast company article but the idea is that those questions will pop up on a search engine result on Google as as lists of answers. So, Google will always prioritize those types of queries and responses because they'll look at it as question answer.
13:13
So question answer content, what it's called as Q&A schema. Question answer content is going to be prioritized with Google. You know, always because we they want experts to respond to queries because like you said, we need expert insights, we don't want fake news everywhere,
13:33
and so Google will always prioritize that so that's something that Turkle is working on and with our publishers we are doing this Q&A schema and what it's turned into and it's, you know, it's early days but what we're seeing is a massive influx of readership and organic search
13:52
and it's not going to be graphic because people are looking for expert insights, it's just not going to change. So that's a very long winded answer to, we believe that there's space, or at least I should say I believe that there is space for everyone in this, in this arena right now.
14:06
Absolutely. So now, how exactly does Turkle work from both perspectives like walk me through how a person can sign up as an expert, and how a person can sign up as a publisher.
14:18
We actually do have quite a bit of people who are both publishers and experts. A really good example would be Brett, our CEO.
14:26
He, we publish on Turkle's website obviously and Brett also submits queries for where it's where he's an expert.
14:34
If you're an expert, you can quickly sign up on just Turkle's homepage. From there you can actually toggle to say I am somebody who wants to publish content and I'm somebody who wants to answer questions.
14:48
From there it will take you straight to your dashboard. Let's say, on the expert side you will see all of the available questions or queries from every publisher that we have currently available that's currently live so deadlines usually are within about two to three weeks.
15:04
You will see all of that there. From the publisher side of things, you can very easily from your dashboard toggling over to publisher, you will be able to write out a question so let's say Nina's blog.com is writing about marketing today, and I'm curious about AI.
15:24
My question might be, if you are a marketing executive, what are, what is one thing you think other marketing executives should be aware of when it comes to chat GPT.
15:37
So let's just, let's just say that that's the query that will then go out and anyone who is on the expert side who has said that they are either an expert in marketing or they have shown interest in marketing related queries is going to see that and be able to respond.
15:54
From there, we do our, our magic and submit once that deadline is closed, submit all of the best answers to that publisher.
16:04
Wow, so you submit more than just the questions and answers though you also include like an intro and all that good stuff. Yes, we can do both so you know journalists sometimes will only request quotes, as they've already written, you know, maybe the majority of the piece.
16:19
We will also submit, if we if you, if you have requested as a full length article, we will submit a full length article, but it just depends on what and what you want if what you're looking for is just quotes we will send you just quotes if what you're looking for is a ready to publish
16:34
piece we will send you a ready to publish piece. Now for the experts that you use on Turkle. Do you charge them anything to be part of the website.
16:42
We can actually do it for free. You get up to three credits so each credit is one question so if you are freemium user you get to answer up to three queries for free every single month, and then they'll renew.
16:56
But most of our experts tend to reply to more than that so it's $99 a month for those experts and they can apply or submit for as many as they want.
17:08
Do you prefer that we not include the pricing though should we, in case you guys change it.
17:13
No, I think it's fine I mean we're pretty much. I think we're pretty solid in terms of in terms of pricing. Yeah. Okay, well then now let's shift gears for a second what about for the publisher publisher side how does that work if I want to do more than let's say
17:26
one article a month because I, from my own perspective because I did test out the product. I did see the allow one article a month, but how does that work.
17:35
Right now, for the next couple of months I can say for sure, we are allowing publishers that we've accepted onto the platform to do it for free however many times a month as they want so you can feel free to include that I know for absolutely certain at
17:51
the minimum that will be true until the end of the first quarter of 2023.
17:57
But right now I think, yeah, you can include that. Okay, it's free. All right, so, going forward though what what should publishers expect if they if they want to work with circle.
18:09
I know for certain that we will always have a freemium version for publishers, as far as paid version goes, we are not 100% certain what that is going to look like just yet.
18:25
Mostly, because we're experimenting, a little more with this q amp a schema that I'm talking about which really is is a pretty brand new thing actually in terms of like SEO and, and, and just like general marketing on blogs.
18:43
So I, as we experiment I think we'll have a better idea after q1 but right now if you are a publisher and you want to publish content more frequently than one a month, you are more than welcome to on the circle platform for free.
18:57
Okay, now in terms of what you consider a publisher to be. What do you consider a publisher to be.
19:04
Truly, anybody that has a blog can be a publisher. Um, you know, if you're fast company, you're going to end up with maybe thousands of responses to a query if you have a very brand new blog that's just starting out you may get less experts
19:24
to self select what they want to respond to, but that doesn't stop you from submitting a query and seeing what happens. We actually encourage that I, I'm always curious to see what types of new blogs are experts are drawn to and excited by I think especially
19:42
when it comes to niche, specifically marketing related content does really well. And like tech and in general business like leadership type of things.
19:54
And like HR all of those things do very very well so any blog that is interested in publishing content for from experts is more than welcome to submit. There are. I can't think of a situation where we would.
20:10
I think many times we've really like rejected a publisher was anybody who's doing anything nefarious which is truly only happened one time that I can think of so really like, if you have great content, you're a blog you want more great content.
20:25
We're a great source.
20:27
I can't disagree. So now, what advice would you give to people that want to use the platform for publishing purposes as content creation.
20:38
My biggest piece of advice would be to focus on evergreen content for your first couple of pieces. And I only say that because it is usually about two weeks that we let a question live on on the platform so this is not best the best use case scenario
21:00
because it's not somebody who's looking for a quick turnaround within 24 hours needing a comment for a story that is not a good use of Turkle because we don't turn it around that quickly.
21:12
So, if you're looking for content or general themes are always really good places to start. If you are a publication with a really high domain ranking for example and you only want to be live on our platform for a short period of time that's totally fine.
21:30
It's best to stick to a little bit more broad topics to see what types of experts actually submit. Now, that said, you are always anyone is more than welcome to reach out to our partnerships email and if they are curious or want ideas for what we think will
21:46
fit on their blog we will absolutely send them ideas and pitches that we think are going to do really well.
21:54
So we will always offer that for folks who are curious.
21:59
Also, I think something that does the publishers, some of our publishers do this very well, they will ask very specific questions. So, we want people experts specifically to respond with one tip, often instead of, you know, like you said, I think before we hit record like
22:19
people will sometimes write you a friggin novel and you don't, we don't want that what we want is a is a great sound bite right so so people who ask very specific questions that does exceptionally well because you will always get the right types of experts to reply.
22:36
You know what, what is one tip for HR leaders in 2023 as it relates to quiet quitting or something like that like something very specific works.
22:50
I think those are like really the two big things that I would say otherwise I encourage people to experiment, see what works really well for your particular blog.
23:01
And niche doesn't always mean the better broad topics do great.
23:06
Well speaking of niches, you mentioned marketing you mentioned business you miss mentioned tech. Are there any other niches that you feel are doing really well right now or something that circle is aiming towards what what's that look like.
23:20
Something that we do really really well is de I so, and an HR related culture, culture, work culture types of stories do wonderful on Turkle.
23:33
We have a lot of HR leaders.
23:36
And I also think like over the last couple of years that's been a really big topic online in general, especially with leadership types of stories because you know people are trying to navigate working from home and office hybrid like there's, there's still a lot of
23:51
this conversation and so those do really really well in terms of where I'd like to see us get more types of content that does really well as lifestyle so something where you could really ask.
24:05
You know you don't necessarily need like a lifestyle expert and doing air quotes but you don't necessarily need a lifestyle expert for some of these things but you want people in leadership or executives or, you know, let's say like female founders like those
24:21
types of people often offer really great tips for types of stories that maybe don't need like, you know, someone to who went to school for 12 years in order to to answer, so I would love to see more of those I love like, I mean I think we even saw something recently
24:37
that did really well it was like a holiday entertaining or how to survive like holidays with your families. That one did great or, and you know I love, I love stuff like that so I would personally would love to see more lifestyle.
24:49
Yeah, my mind's reeling with a whole bunch of ideas right now like for some reason the one that popped in my head is, what's the best pet for a CEO.
24:58
Love that. I love that.
25:00
That should be my next inquiry.
25:02
I agree. Let's just do that one and I will vote dog.
25:08
Yeah, I completely concur.
25:11
I guess like I was thinking okay well some CEOs probably say a cat because they're less maintenance but
25:17
I have a funny, funny person. So we actually have. So, as you, I'm sure you've already seen but I don't think we talked about this. Every person on site inside of Turkle has a headshot that is that goes along with their, with their, excuse me, that goes along with their query
25:34
and sends along to the publisher in case the publisher wants to create like, you know, any sort of image right there is a guy on actually multiple people on our platform when I'm looking at some of our headshots that have animals like pets inside of their
25:48
headshots there's one guy who has like a ferret on his shoulder and it like amuses me to no end I love that. So I actually think this pet thing would do really well.
25:57
Yeah, I think I'm gonna go for it. I'm totally going to add it. So, um, where, where should people go if they want to get started with this.
26:05
Sure, Turkle TPRKEL.io.
26:10
Now, what on earth caused the name.
26:13
Okay, I love that you asked that because we now are starting to really talk about it a little bit but do you know the relatively famous, well you're a content writer you'll know who studs Turkle is actually believe it or not I don't.
26:30
Okay, well that's that's fine. So he was a very famous writer who his like his. Everyone knows him as the guy who gives voice to the voiceless. So, I think it was during World War Two, he interviewed all types of people just like hundreds
26:50
and hundreds of interviews of people and their experiences and he was just fascinated by human beings in general. And that was kind of the inspiration for Brett or CEO to name it Turkle because really like at the core we believe that thought leadership
27:07
should be democratized. It's not just the people who spend the most money on social media ads or the folks who, you know, have endless cash to pay PR firms to make sure that they're speaking at every major event and on every podcast and all of those things
27:25
like we want people who are actually experts to be able to give their voice to things where they have expertise in. So that's the that's the big story behind Turkle.
27:39
But if you Google studs Turkle he's a fascinating man. And actually I barely even heard of that name before I started working here and now I'm like obsessed with him so
27:49
that's fantastic. Wow. Well, I'm definitely going to leave the links to that and whatever I find about studs Turkle in the show notes.
27:57
That sounds great. Well, I just I want to thank you so much for being here with me today. Is there anything else that you would like to share before I let you go?
28:07
No, thank you so much for for having us and also I'm very looking forward to this CEO pet thing. Yeah, it's gonna happen. I cannot wait for someone to say like squirrel.
28:23
It's funny you say that because an ex boyfriend in high school. True story, his mom used to rescue squirrels and they had like 20 squirrels on their property.
28:34
I that is like my dream. I literally have a school theater right over here. I have a little porch right like outside of my bedroom where my little office area is.
28:44
And all I want is for a little squirrels to come and eat the like berries I leave for them TBD if any of that is going to happen but love that. Well, now I'm going to have to send you some links of some funny stuff that I think you'll enjoy.
28:57
And I will say it so that our listeners can actually enjoy it as well. I'm going to leave a link to the squirrel mazes down in the show notes.
29:08
I love it. Thank you so much.
29:13
Alright, so that kind of concludes the interview. I love everything you said. And I love that it ended on squirrels.
29:27
That's the gamut of our conversation.
29:30
What can you do with that chat GPT.
29:34
Yeah, see.
29:36
That's why we still need people. But yeah, I think that was great. And I think that I think this is going to be really good to kind of tell people about, you know, a new platform that it will I mean it might not be that new but just the
29:49
it started in 2020 Brett actually sold our CEO sold his SEO agency. I think it was like right at the beginning of 2020 middle of 2020. And yeah, we're like two years old we're brand new. Oh, that's exciting. Okay, cool.
30:06
I'm excited to be, I guess, on the ground floor talking about this. I think that more people need to know about it because, like, you know, as a, as a blogger I mean that's the whole reason I started the podcast is, is just trying to talk more about what really
30:20
happens with bloggers because everybody's teaching about blogging. And it's like, well, I don't want to know how to start a blog, I want to know what happens in the thick of it.
30:30
Right. Yeah, I mean there's also all that's like, I was listening to a couple of your others, episodes and like, I think one of the things that is so challenging about podcasts in general is that a lot of podcasts touch on what to do when, but they don't
30:48
actually tell like they don't give you the format like, okay, for example, if I'm a podcast about like PR, and we're saying how do I pitch my client for blah blah oh pitch them to this type of publication with this type of editor, okay, great but like
31:01
can you tell me what you say, like, for example, I get pitches I'm sure you do too as a writer. I get pitches that are so long, and so boring and like, I don't care about that give me three to five sentences we actually cut people off inside of Turkle at a certain amount
31:18
of characters because if you can't tell me what's interesting in three to five sentences, go back to the drawing board, like, please.
31:26
Thank you.
31:31
Please because honestly like, and I and I think that's a big issue and like the marketing industry in general people are so wordy like we got a, since Twitter, truly, I feel like it's gotten even worse.
31:45
People need to get better at succinctly telling their message to people if you cannot do it in three to five sentences, go back to the drawing board, it is not working for you.
31:57
That's fantastic.
32:00
This was great. I think everything that we did just now is just fantastic. And I'm excited that I haven't really heard any podcasts talking about circle yet.
32:10
No, I haven't No, you're not wrong at all I, I want to say maybe Brett's done a cup like SEO but that was back when he had marketers his agency that he sold before deciding to pursue Turkle 100%.
32:24
Yeah, no, we haven't actually, we really haven't done a lot I joined the company in August, and full time in October and so we've just been like, full speed ahead. I think, you know, hopefully in the very near future we'll have time to like really do more but
32:41
we're really appreciative I think this will be great I mean your, your listeners are the right types of people who will get it immediately.
32:48
And I think one of the biggest things that's interesting so far and I'm sure you've seen this with other types of companies but publishers are very.
32:59
What's the catch. Yes, you know what I mean, like they're, why, why is it free and we're like well, if you're familiar with the tech industry, you want to make sure that both sides of the marketplace are being served.
33:11
So, the better are the publishers we get and the more that they're communicated with us like hey we love this we love this we don't like this, the better our product is going to be and that's what we want that's more valuable than cash for us right like any startup
33:26
that's true. Yeah, especially right now. Yeah. Right. And what's the catch is my least and most favorite question because there is no.
33:35
You can't answer there is no cash. But yeah, I mean I like you're a great you're a great publisher because you gave us feedback, and you will, and you can give us feedback we love that.
33:48
Continue to do it then.
33:50
But first I'm going to go put the thing about what what see what pet is a good for. Yes, please do that.
33:56
That's good. All right, well let's go and I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. You as well. Thank you so much, Ashley I'll talk to you soon. Okay, bye.
34:07
Well my bloggy friends, I hope you enjoyed all the insights our guests had to share with you to get the show notes for this and all episodes go over to famous Ashley grant.com backslash podcast.
34:16
And until next time, may your page fees behind and your bounce right below.
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